Transcript:
Maureen: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Milk Minute. We have an incredible episode for you today. So, this episode is sponsored by one of our favorite companies. Like, Heather is obsessed with them. This episode is sponsored by CoBoo.
And we have their founders coming on for an interview today. They are sisters, which is so fun.
Heather: Isn’t that awesome? I actually, we thought we were joking that we didn’t know they were actual sisters. Yeah, yeah. We thought they were like sisters. Sisters in business.
Maureen: We thought it was like an endearment term, like, you’re my sister Heather.
No, actual sisters.
Heather: And, you know, they have seven kids between them and one with special needs and another one that had a heart condition. These ladies have pumped a lot over a long period of time. Yes. And so they solved a huge problem for us.
Maureen: I mean, they’ve been continually pumping, like alternating for what, like 14 years?
Heather: Probably, however long it takes to grow and, you know, pump for a kid, but yeah, so they actually have solved a huge problem for us with pumping, which is nipple friction and skin breakdown and pain. And so their tagline for their nipple lubrication is pump pleasantly. And I love that every time I use this on my patients in my office, I pull it out and it just says pump pleasantly and I always show them the label.
I’m like, see. It can be fine. Yeah.
Maureen: So this CoBoo spray is on, honestly, like they’ve thought of everything. And every time we use this product, we are like, that’s so nice. It’s just, just what we wanted, just what we needed. And our friends over at CoBoo have a discount code for you as well. So we’ll let you know that now.
So you can maybe do some shopping during the episode.
Heather: Yeah. So if you go to CoBooMom.com and you enter code MilkMinute15, you’ll get 15 percent off your entire order, which is so nice. They definitely did not have to do that. As a small business owner myself, I know that every time you give out a discount, that’s like money right out of your family’s pocket.
And they’re willing to do that. And you’ll hear in the episode, because they are so passionate about changing your breastfeeding and pumping experience and making it better.
Maureen: Absolutely. And since this episode is sponsored by CoBoo, we are not taking any commercial breaks. So we’re just going to go straight through this incredible interview.
Talk to these wonderful women. We had so much fun talking to them.
Heather: Yeah, and we’re going to just let them intro themselves because honestly, they did such a great job of giving their backgrounds with Jen being an RN and Michelle’s a CPA. I could not imagine a better sister dream team for starting a business for women by women and we are so impressed with them and we can’t say enough good things.
Without further ado, let’s welcome Jenny and Michelle to the show and I hope you enjoy.
Maureen: We are super excited to hop into our interview with our two guests from CoBoo today. Welcome, guys.
Michelle: Thank you. We’re excited to be on here.
Heather: All right. So we talked a little bit about you in the intro, but we’d love to hear it straight from you.
Would you each like to introduce yourselves and just give us a little bit of a brief glimpse into how you ended up in the nipple lubrication business and what was that even like to start, you know? Just tell us how this happened, and just tell us your name so our listeners know which one of you is which.
Michelle: All right. Well, I am Michelle. And I love that question. It’s a great question, because it is such a, like, funny niche to be into. And we have had so many, like, just awkward, amazing moments within, like, the business industry because of it. But basically, how we ended up here was Jen has three kids, and I have four kids.
Cause I’m a little extra crazy and well, you are now, yeah. And we had pumped quite a bit for our kids. She’s an RN. So she was working, you know, 12 hour shifts. She’d pumped a lot. And then I own a few businesses. I’m a CPA. And so I had been pumping quite a bit for my kids as well. And what had happened was.
We had been on a girl’s trip, just the two of us, we’re actually sisters, so we were on a trip together, and I was pumping for my third born, my first two I’d pumped quite a bit, working, and then with him, he was born with a heart condition, and it was like pretty traumatic, we ended up in the NICU for quite a while, they had to do all these, like, maneuvers on him, to try to get his heart to convert back into sinus rhythm.
I mean, his heart would be going like 260 beats a minute. It was just so stressful and so terrible. And throughout that time, I had been… You know, your mom heart is just aching, right? For your little newborn. And… I had been pumping while I was there so that they could feed him a bottle at night so that I could get some sleep.
So I was at the hospital 24 hours a day and they were like, wow, you pump so well, you’re getting so much milk. This is great. Like, how have you done this? So Jen and I were kind of rehearsing this on this girl’s trip and talking about how glad I was that I had pumped, you know, and that I knew what I was doing to begin with.
So that through this time, you know, I was able to pump for my third and we were talking about how, you know, if, if women had this lubrication that we had come up with just between the two of us, I bet you girls could stick with this a little bit longer because it’s not the worst thing that’s ever happened to you all of a sudden when you can lubricate your flanges.
So we were just sitting in a hotel room and we were like, We should make this for the world. So, that’s when CoBoo was born.
Heather: I love that this was like a secret sister sauce that now you’re sharing with the world. That is so hilarious. Were you all pumping at the same time or did you kind of stack your kids so you were never pumping together?
Jenny: We didn’t ever pump together, so I had a kid, then she had a kid, like we, we did every other, so we weren’t ever simultaneously pumping.
Michelle: We just made sure that someone was always pumping, you know?
Heather: Well, that’s what I was going to say. That’s a lot of years. Pumping was a great tip. Like, go for hours, yes.
Oh, my gosh. I love this so much. Thank you for sharing that. And how about you, Jenny? Tell us your, tell us your background and, and what was your reaction when Michelle was like, Hey, what if I converted all my NICU stress and my CPA skills into making nipple lubrication a worldwide thing?
Jenny: Right, right. The pitch went really well, like as you would expect.
So Like she said, I have three kids. I was a bedside nurse for forever because I love being a bedside nurse. Like I love helping people. I love like that you get to be their person when they’re having their worst day. So I loved that job. I did it more as like a hobby than like, I didn’t really provide for my family.
I have a husband that has provided for us. But I loved that job. I love doing that. And so I felt really confident going into my first that like I could do motherhood and breastfeeding and all the things like this was just like, I can work like IV pumps and I can do chest tubes. And I was like, how hard can this be?
And then my first came out without a suck and like couldn’t latch really. And I was like so arrogant about it. They unplugged him basically from the NICU and sent him home because his blood sugars were low and I was like, Oh yeah, I totally got this. I did not have it. And like pumping was miserable.
Breastfeeding wasn’t fun. I didn’t go see a lactation consultant for a couple of weeks. By the time I went in, I was exhausted and like, I was done and she, you know, helped me immensely. So I figured out pumping with him because he never could really breastfeed. And then my second, I was working full time as a nurse when I had him.
So I was pumping, but he breastfed. And let me tell you, like a kid that comes out breastfeeding, I was like, this is so amazing. I remember like calling my husband and being like. Look at what he can do. Like, you’re not going to believe how easy this is. This is like the most amazing thing ever. Like, he, it was just like a whole different thing from the first experience I had.
But I became really good at pumping with the first towards the end, but it was like a very steep learning curve. And this was 14 years ago. Like, there wasn’t information like there is now. Like, it wasn’t like you popped on the internet. I was reading every book, every, I was like, tons of information trying to figure out my first.
Second, I already kind of figured it out, so like, Plessy breastfed, which was amazing. And then when my third was born, she was born without any refluxes, and they basically thought I was going to be taking home a vegetable from the hospital at best. Originally, they thought she was going to pass away within a week or two, and then it’s like, They just kept testing her for all the things they thought she might have and it wasn’t that and it wasn’t this and so it took me about 48 hours after she was born to like get the ability to be like I need a pump and I need to start pumping just because I was coping with a lot but about 48 hours.
I want to say after she was born. I started pumping and I pumped like machine, like I wanted her to have breast milk. They got a feeding tube placed pretty quickly. And so she got to be exclusively breast milk fed pretty much from the 48 hours on after they got a feeding tube and, and everything.
But I was so grateful that I had had like the hard knocks and nursing and that I’d been pumping some. So that when she came out, it was like, I knew how to do it. I knew what to do. And I remember the NICU nurses, they’d come around to like all the different parents in the NICU and they’d be like, how’s pumping going?
And I’d hear like the woman across the. The baby, like I’m not pumping. Like I tried, it was terrible. And then they’d ask the next lady and she’d be like, I’m not doing it at all. And then they’d come to me and I’d be like, it’s going great. And they’d be like, how much milk are you making? I’d be like, Oh, about like 44 ounces a day.
You’re making 44 ounces a day. And like, when I’d go to drop my breast milk off at the breast milk bank, they’d be like, Oh my gosh. We’re like buying another freezer just for you and your breast milk. Like you are crazy. And like a couple of years ago, they reached out to me to be like, we just barely found another one of your breast milks, like down in some of our basement freezers.
Like, we’re wondering if you’d still want them. And like breast milk is an emotional attachment. I remember being like, I’ll drive to the hospital. I will come pick that up. And it will be like, it’s still in my freezer because you can’t get rid of that. That’s like love in a bottle. So anyway, when we were on the girl’s trip and she was like, we should make this.
I was like, We should like people will be more successful using a breast pump if they have this like easy game changer shoe in product that like a million women have probably thought about making but not been like maybe like passionate enough to be like, we can fix this problem and make this easier for women.
Heather: Or they hmm. You know, because I think the benefit of you all pumping together as sisters is that you’re going to talk about your nipples with each other and you’re going to be like, God, this sucks. You know, like, I wish there was a way to make this better. Whereas in my experience working with patients every day in clinic, they always think they’re the only one.
They’re like, Oh, it’s probably because I didn’t research enough or I’m doing it wrong. Or, and it’s like, no, it’s because baby’s mouths are wet. And that hard flange is dry.
Jenny: Yes.
Maureen: So I’m curious because both of you seem like, you know, you’ve probably, you’ve gone through quite a journey to get to the point where pumping was comfortable and where you were confident with it.
So, like, what, what did you try first? What, you know, what were the iterations of, you know, like pump lubricant that you guys went through?
Jenny: Well with my first I remember like reading things they talked about like lubricating your flange with oil but I remember being like this is so hard to get on there. So I basically like emptied out my pantry of all food products that I thought would be a lubricant And that’s where I started like the Pam cooking spray All the things that I was like butter like what will work to lubricate flanges and I will say with my first I didn’t really figure out It was just like, basically anything to lubricate was better than nothing.
So like lanolin was an option. Like there were things 15 years ago that were options. They just weren’t amazing.
Michelle: And they weren’t spoken about or promoted as any type of a lubrication. It was more just, I feel like moms at home being like, what can I do? And you know, everyone’s given a little thing of lanolin at home or at the hospital and they were just.
I’m just using that or something. But problem with that is, you know, when you’re pumping in your car in the middle of winter, your lanolin is rock hard, and when you’re pumping in your car in the middle of summer, your lanolin is now basically a liquid. And so we kind of, we did that, you know, back kind of with our first couple.
Jenny: Then it’s hard to wash off your flanges, like when you put lanolin on your flanges, it becomes like a really thick paste that kind of mixes with your breast milk.
And then you end up like spending a lot of time cleaning your flanges to get it all off.
Michelle: Yeah, so we went through a lot of iterations of CoBoo before we landed on what it is today. I will say we’ve tried like all the different types of oils. We debated about putting some vitamins in for the skin, but then we were worried, you know, about babies and dosage, stuff like that.
So we decided, you know, safety first for baby. We also wanted to make sure that since. Oh, well, when we were in the hotel room that when we came up with CoBoo, we were like, and it has to be a spray, like it has to be a spray because my dirty fingers in this same tub over and over again on my flange or, and then, you know, potentially my breast milk passing through that and then my baby ingested it.
So it’d be like, you have to wash your hands before you pump and you know, you’re not always pumping somewhere where you can wash your hands. You’re pumping where you need to pump when you need to pump a lot of the time. So. You have to find somewhere to wash your hands, lube up your pump with your dirty hands or whatever, and then afterwards you’re now stuck to your pump attached to a wall most of the time and now your fingers are still dirty and you’re like trapped.
Like I can’t even scroll my phone because my fingers are disgusting. So
Heather: I’m sorry. I’m just imagining that for myself and there is, you know, when you are trapped either by a baby or a pump, and you have something just like, you need chapstick, or you have like a, a desitin finger, you can’t even eat your snacks that you have in your pumping kit next to you, because now it’s like you can’t, it’s not finger licking good.
Michelle: No, it’s not. And you’re always so thirsty. And you can’t get up to go get a drink and you’re just like, I’m trapped all of a sudden. So we were like, it has to be a spray. So then we went through all the different oils to make sure that it would come out as just like a very fine mist, you know, so that it would just be a little bit and just coat it nice for you.
You could keep your hands all nice. We tried a few extracts, a few essential oils, but there were some pumps that have pieces that would interact with that and it would cause it to lose suction. I mean, like we. Like, we went through with chemists and formulas and like, oh, all sorts of iterations and we finally landed on what CoBoo is today and it is a fantastic, perfect product.
Maureen: Was it just like you guys testing it with pumps or did you have a whole group of people that you were like, y’all are pumping, just try these and tell us which one works.
Michelle: Yes, it was a little of both like we kind of worked the two of us until we thought we had it right and then we were having like everyone with every type of, because you know, like we’re bootstrapping this is just two moms and we don’t want to buy like a billion pumps.
It was like anyone we knew that had different pumps were like, Hey, try this on your pump. Hey, try this on your pump. And then we obviously had, you know, people that do like food science and chemists and people that work with breast milk, that kind of stuff, just to go over it all and make sure that there weren’t any interactions or something that we wouldn’t foresee.
Heather: Yeah, that’s awesome. And can I just as a professional who uses your product because I have tons of CoBoo in my office tons like and people will come in to see me for breastfeeding issues and we end up needing to pump and I will spray CoBoo like I have an office one that I use for people when I have to pump them and I can’t tell you how many times they have looked at me and been like, Oh my God, what did you just do?
And I’m like, I just lubricated your nipples. And they’re like, wow, this is such a big difference. And I’m like, I know. And because I’m kind of one of those people that’s like a picker, like I love really satisfying noises and things. When you spray the CoBoo, it is like a perfect circular spray that is like the perfect distance.
It coats the entire inside of the flange. It’s not like you have to do one more, more than one spray. It’s just squirt, squirt. And it’s so satisfying.
Michelle: Oh, it’s totally satisfying.
Jenny: I’m going to be describing because you know how many sprays and sprayers and spray patterns and spray amounts. Like we really wanted to get it right.
So I remember just having pieces of paper everywhere that I had sprayed with a certain sprayer. I’d marked how much it had sprayed, where it had sprayed to see like, is this the right spray pattern for a flange? Like we didn’t, we wanted this to be like,
Maureen: So good.
Jenny: No fail system for women headache for any woman.
Like I took it I want this to be the win that they have that day. If they have no other wins, I want them to spray their flange with satisfaction to be like, I nailed that.
Heather: Well, and the spray lasts. So like I have my office one that I use like I said, and so that one lasts me a really long time and actually like even though I’ve had it for months, it’s not like it gets clogged up and then the spray pattern gets affected.
It is consistently, like, a nice spray every time. So, congratulations, your spray test worked. I have to give you all the snaps for that because it is very, very, very awesome.
Maureen: So, do you know what this reminds me of? This is a funny story. Like, years ago when I was learning neonatal intubation, the instructor who taught it had a little spray bottle of fake spit to put in the dummy.
Right, so we could like intubate the dummy. And I have literally thought of that spray bottle of fake spit while pumping about a thousand times just to be like, that is what I need in the pump.
Michelle: And this is basically what this is.
Heather: Yes. Well, so can we just back up and talk about maybe the history of this because I think if men had been the ones that have had to pump for millennia, they would have created a lube a long time ago if we were like, All right, put your penis in this plastic flange and pump it eight times a day or more.
They’d be like, Well, can’t we get some lube on there or something? You know, but for women, it’s like, we have been trying to figure this out for millennia, I’m sure. So what are some, so when you were going through this and the history of nipple butters and balms and lubes, what are some things that you saw that women have tried or that they are still trying that are just either heinous or like shocking things that you’ve thought about?
Michelle: Oh, well, first off, I just need to say that Jen and I have had that exact conversation. So like those exact words, like if men were the ones, I mean, like we, we love men, right? Sure. They’re great people. Like it just, I don’t want this to be, but I’m like, if men were the ones having the babies and men were the one pumping, men were the people breastfeeding, like there would be no discussion.
Like postpartum care would be a thousand times better. It wouldn’t be just like, send you home. See in six weeks!
Heather: And it would all be covered by insurance.
Michelle: Yeah. Oh, totally. And like the pumps would be like, they would have been amazing, you know, hundreds of years ago. And I mean, I just cannot stress it enough.
Just how like different the whole industry would be. If even if it wasn’t even their penis, it was their finger. They’d be like, well, enough is enough here. Like
Jenny: I remember I used to say like When we were making this, I’d be like, we didn’t make babies under dry conditions, so we shouldn’t be feeding babies under dry conditions.
Like, lubrication is necessary in all these baby things.
Michelle: Right. Oh, yes. Okay. I’m sorry. What was the question?
Heather: Like, what is first of all, yes. And the finger. So true. We’re talking a lot about fingers anyway. What are some weird things that you’ve heard of people trying on their nipples just to make it through, like scrapping things together in their kitchen or, you know, when you’ve been going over the history of nipple balms and butters and lubes, you know, what are some things that you’ve encountered where you’re like, Oh my God, thank God we did this.
Michelle: Right. I don’t know. I will say like overall, I don’t feel like there was much, I will say that like when we created our product and we had to get some men involved at some point, you know, like advertisers help us, that kind of stuff.
They’d be like, what is this? So they’d be like, well, what’s a product, you know, like tell us like the, the other product that exists for this. And we were like, There isn’t one, it doesn’t exist, like, and they would just be like, no, you know, who would be your competitors and we’re like, no one, there’s no one’s doing this and they just like, they couldn’t get it and it made it really difficult to even launch because there wasn’t a way for us to really be like, okay, here’s the key words that women are here.
Searching, you know, like maybe like nipple creams, but you know, those are more, I feel like at the time it was like for cracked or dry nipples, things like that, you know, there wasn’t really something pumping lubricant just wasn’t a, wasn’t a thing, you know, even people, we would get classified as like machinery, like a pump.
Lubricant. You know, like for your like,
Maureen: Oh, like, like motor lubricant.
Michelle: I don’t know. Yes. It was just like a hurdle we didn’t foresee having to overcome. We were like, no, like the breast pump lubricant. Great.
Jenny: Or we’d be like a sexual product that we were trying to pump up boobs. With a spray where we’re like, no, we’re not about those things.
Maureen: You’re like closer, but still not it.
Heather: They’re like, so is this like the lip gloss that makes your, makes your lips voluptuous? And you’re like, no, we don’t want them more voluptuous. We just want them to move in and out and excrete milk. That’s so funny. I didn’t even think about the fact that your search engine optimization would be totally jacked up.
Michelle: It was so messed up and we kept getting reported like on social media for like adult products. I don’t know. I just, or we like went against their community guidelines. I had to go like full be like, this is not against community guidelines. Like if you are not going to allow, you know, like women to pump more comfortably.
And I feel like every time I came at any like of the Instagram, Facebook, whatever they’d be like, okay, okay.
Heather: Okay. Well, and also when you do email marketing, I ran into this as well. Anytime you say the word pump or, you know, anything related to pumping, it’ll get flagged and it’ll say, Oh, just so you know, you talked about enlarging body parts.
So this might go to spam. And I’m like, no, God.
Michelle: Yes. Like heaven forbid you say the word nipple and it is like, it’s over for you.
Heather: Oh my gosh.
Maureen: It’s a really unique marketing challenge.
Heather: Yeah. Totally. Did the men that you had to interact with also say, well, if you don’t have a competitor, that must mean that this is not something that’s needed, because surely we would have thought of this by now.
Jenny: Right? And I do feel like it was a lot of men, especially when we got into like. It was almost like I had to convince them to like, please sell me packaging. Like, they’d be like, I just like, you really think you want this many bottles and this many sprayers? And I’d be like, yeah, I do. And they’d be like, so explain this to me again, because I really need you to run this business plan by me so I can like sign off on this.
You know, it was like, people were very hesitant to be like, you really think this is a product the world needs. And like, we felt passionately about it probably because. Our pumping just continued to line up. So it was like a long conversation that we continued to hold. Like you guys are doing pumping every day.
So like you’re passionate about it. Most women do it for like six months and it’s like real terrible or maybe a year. And then they don’t really go back to rethinking how could have that have been better? Do I want to make a business out of this? Like how passionate do you stay about something you haven’t done for years?
So I feel like because we’d done it for so many years back to back, it may just be like. No, really, I think this is a product the world needs like when I call him, like, now we’re sure about this because I just had another one of those conversations where I was like trying to convince somebody to like design packaging for me because we need this product.
Anyway, it was interesting in that way.
Maureen: It’s interesting. It was like a patronizing protectiveness where they’re like, Oh honey, are you sure you want to waste your money on that?
Michelle: Totally. Yes. Or they’re giggling. You just see them blush. You know, like the second you say. You know, I need to make something for a breast pump.
I mean, there’s sometimes they’re just like, like you tell they’re just so uncomfortable. There’s times where we’re like, are you okay? Like, are you comfortable with this? Because if you’re not, that’s fine. But like, and we don’t want to like, make you feel like you’re being held hostage by us. But like, we would really, I don’t know.
So we had that. And honestly, sometimes other women, you know, would be like, this is not a necessary product because pumping should not hurt. You know, you need to check your flange sizes, or just use your breast milk, which are totally, like, valid concerns and important, like, yes, for sure, make sure you’re using the right flange size.
Right, but it’s a yes, and. Yes, and like, you know, if you’re power pumping or you’re trying to get your milk supply up, or… I don’t know, there’s just a lot of reasons why you don’t have milk already coming out that you can lubricate your flanges with, plus it’s just another thing where you’re getting your hands kind of dirty and then touching your flanges.
So there was a lot of like, almost convincing the industry like, it’s okay ladies, like we can make this easier, like we don’t have to like grit and bear it, like we can do this. Yeah,
Maureen: well, and that’s like part of what we love, right, is that your message is pump pleasantly, because that is a myth we encounter at work.
Every single day where people come in just bearing pain that they absolutely do not need to because somewhere sometime in their life, somebody said, Yeah, well, of course it hurts. You just suck it up. It’s part of being a mom.
Heather: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or I asked them, like, How does pumping feel? And they’re like, Oh, you know, And I’m like, oh, no, I don’t love that.
And they’re like, well, you know, it’s not like comfortable, but it’s like it is what it is. And I’m like, what if it was better than that? Would you feel comfortable doing it more often? And this is especially when people are on their second baby and they had to exclusively pump with their first. And so they had a terrible long term experience with it.
And now. When I mention like, okay, we’re having an issue and we need to pump, they’re like, Oh, no, I don’t want to pump again. And I’m like, tell me more about that. Things have changed in the past few years. We have a new product on the market. And what if we tried it today? And they’re like, Oh, my God, actually, I can do that intervention.
So it literally is saving people’s breastfeeding journeys, it’s saving their mental health. And I think that just in general, we are trying to squash and I know you are to the idea that Motherhood and being a woman in general means suffering, and that’s normal, and it’s not. So thank you for that. I really appreciate that that’s also your message.
And are there any other questions that patients ask you or that customers ask you as far as like, when should I use it? Like, do you recommend only using it when it hurts or is it more of a prophylactic thing. So like, how do you explain it to people?
Jenny: It’s been it’s really great to be a woman and get to talk with other women about things like this, because especially when it’s going to be their first to be like, let me talk to you about some of the things that will make your journey easier if you get it now.
And if you Plan for a, I hope for you to have a totally healthy, amazing breastfeeding experience where you don’t labor for 52 hours and end up with a c section and have a baby that doesn’t breastfeed. Like we hope everybody gets to have the birth and feeding experience that they want, but there’s a lot of value in being prepared for.
Not having the birthing and feeding experience that that you want and if you can go into that Prepared for a less than ideal outcome Meaning that you’ve bought products to support you through breastfeeding in all situations and you start using them Early and often to keep the skin of the breast like healthy and moisturized and You get good breast pads to keep that skin dry Whatever it is You can do from the beginning to keep yourself from getting to that uncomfortable Terrible phase where you’re like now I need an intervention now.
I don’t want to breastfeed anymore now I don’t want to use the pump this hurts too bad So like I’m cutting back to pumping or feeding twice a day because it’s all I can do because my toes are curling If you can just stay out of getting to that place. Postpartum like you’re gonna win the game. So like the more prepared you go into it with it, whatever car seat you need, whatever lotion you need, whatever burp cloths you need and diapers and, and like go ahead and nest yourself away and you prepare yourself like.
Your, your world war three kid that’s going to get you through this because you don’t know how it’s going to go, but be ready to like, use the things, use your resources, spend some money, like take care of yourself and make it as easy as possible. And the best way to do that is to prepare before for just like, how am I going to keep my skin healthy when I’m pumping?
How am I going to find time to breastfeed? Like who is going to feed me? At the end of the day, because somebody needs to make me food too. So whatever you can do to line up the perfect world to survive world war three, like do it if you can.
Heather: Okay. So you talked about keeping your nipple tissue healthy. I am curious about that.
So when you are exclusive pumping, we’re talking about. Potentially a year’s worth of pumping lots of times a day. You know, Maureen and I have both worked with patients that have very unhealthy nipple tissue issues. And what have you seen as far as what you’ve experienced and when patients when patients use your product and they give you feedback?
So what are what are you seeing as far as nipple tissue goes and the microbiome on the nipple, which we’re learning more and more about every day?
Jenny: Right. Well, we luckily have a mother who is a professor of microbiology. So we got to talk a lot with her, like, as we were creating this product and like, you know, like what should we use?
What shouldn’t we use? She is like a very strong advocate in the like, Necessary like culturing of the gut of infants. I remember getting that lecture multiple times after I’d had a C section that like, you know, my baby didn’t get to pass through the vaginal canal. So like, you’re already behind the game on culturing the gut, you know, like all the things I remember, this was a thing.
And anyway, it’s amazing what our bodies do and what they’ve done for centuries and what they’re very good at doing. So like that being said, your skin and your breast milk and your ability to breastfeed. is amazing when it works well. Like how little input you really have to put into like having the perfect like gut microbes in your infant.
As you begin like breastfeeding and doing all these things. So and that being said with the skin, like, I think it really is important to take really good care of your breast tissue. And like, I’m, I’m glad that we’ve gone away from like doing the heavy scrubbing of the nipples to get prepared for like breastfeeding.
I remember my mom talking to me about that and me being like, yeah, I don’t think that’s going to be, and she’s like, I did. You must do. And like, obviously. It is going to be an environment that your nipple is not being used to no matter what like it is going to be a different environment but whatever you can do to keep them just dry and clean in between feedings without doing a ton of soap a ton of wiping a ton of adding a ton of Fingers, a ton of different things like it, it really does take very good care of itself in everything that breast milk already has in it and that your nipples are meant to have like saliva and breast milk on them and dry and like stay healthy and exactly the way your skin needs to be.
Heather: Yeah, and you know what is weird about nipples, so many things, but they are a mucous membrane, but they are an external mucous membrane. So when we have a wound, we are now moving more towards moist wound healing where we want it to be wet. In order to heal, so I always kind of explain to people like the reason why we do want to keep the lube on there or keep the ointment on there if we have a wound is because can you imagine if you had a vaginal wound and we were like, just dry it out, dry it out, lay, lay out with your legs wide open with a fan on them.
See how good that feels. Oh my gosh. It’s terrible. Yeah. It’s awful. Like, we don’t want to do that. So what I like about CoBoo also is that it is not something that we have to worry about being on your nipples for the long haul if you do have a wound. So like if you use the spray. Then you pump and then you put your all-purpose nipple ointment on or whatever.
It’s not going to interact with those and you can put Silverettes or the Medela gel pads or whatever you’re using to keep them moist all day and we don’t have to worry that it’s staying against your skin. It’s very non caustic and it does not disrupt the microbiome. I have not seen that. Have you seen that, Maureen, that you’ve had?
No, I haven’t either.
Jenny: Like we’ve gotten a lot of letters from women, but I used to like keep these, like kept me going through the like difficulties of owning a business that were just like, I was going to quit and I found your product and I did it. I was like my last ditch effort I got on and I randomly bought your product.
And it made it possible. And I remember being like, I will continue to do this business, despite it being like hard sometimes to be a business owner, because we’re really saving people’s feeding journeys. Like they are becoming successful through being able to pump comfortably. We have another product that we made.
That’s a net bomb that is applied like a chapstick and it melts. So like it’s a great product to put on after you pump. It’s all food grade ingredients and it’s moisture that absorbs into the skin. So it doesn’t leave you feeling so goopy like some of them do. And we’ve really liked making that product.
Cause you’re like, we’re just so tired of getting stuff on our fingers and then having to put it around our nipple. And like, it seems so temperature sensitive that it’s either like too hard or it’s too soft or, you know, it’s just one more thing. So we made it to be really easy to like open and apply to keep that skin Moist and healthy without it feeling like goopy.
Michelle: Yeah, it comes in like a, like a giant chapstick. I don’t have one handy right now. That’s really great. Yeah. And it just says like, keep your udders feeling like nipples. And it just, yeah, it melts on like really smooth. It doesn’t like, cause like you’re saying with the microbiome, like I don’t like it when the ointments.
It’s almost like create a seal, you know, so we made it so that it was still like breathable, but it’ll give you a little bit of extra moisture.
Jenny: It has chamomile and some cucumber oil extract in it. So it’s got like really great properties and then really strong moisturizers just to help keep that nipple skin healthy without being like a big paste that you’re spreading everywhere.
Maureen: Yeah. Well, you know, so you mentioned, you know, just now about. All food grade ingredients, and we’ve kind of skirted around the topic of what is in this and how safe is it for baby and all of that. So I kind of want to look at that a little bit. Obviously, you believe this is safe because you’re selling it, but what was the process that you went through to find out, like, are these ingredients safe?
Can they be in frozen milk we’re storing? Can they be swallowed by baby? I’m very curious about that.
Michelle: Yeah, so, first off, we made sure that, you know, it’s a very fine mist so that, and it won’t get into the milk hardly at all because it’s kind of sticking to the flange, right? And then the milk is just sliding right over the oil.
We made sure that there’s such a small amount in it so that, you know, those pumping sessions, Where you pump like a half an ounce or something, you know, you get done and you’re like, ah, like what but even, you know, even with just that little bit, we didn’t want it to change like the consistency of the milk, you know?
So we made sure that it was just like such a small amount in there so that, you know, it didn’t make the milk overall seem oily or anything like that. We also, you know, made sure that all of our ingredients. were not things that were common allergens. We made sure that everything’s like organic, super high quality.
We consulted tons of lactation consultants just to be like, do you foresee like any interactions here? Talk to my OB about it. Like we talked to all sorts of people. I have a friend that’s works at Similac, you know, for Abbott and kind of ran it by him. He’s a nutritionist there. I had another guy in my neighborhood that is a food chemist.
That is his job. So talk to him about it. We have done quite a bit of covering our bases and then just overall made sure that. Even though it is safe and wonderful and we have not had any issues over the years and people by far and away are praising it for, like Jen said, like, I was going to give up and now we’re six months later and I’m still pumping and like, I’ve met my goal, you know, and Yeah, it’s just we, we really dug into it to make sure that it was great and we’ve gotten the green light, I mean, across the board.
Heather: Well, and also breast milk is alive. You know, this is something we have to remind people of all the time because they think about milk that’s stored like they’re, Pasteurized milk that’s in the fridge and it’s not, you know, and especially we take into consideration the age of the baby as far as like how you’re pumping, the cleanliness of pumping, how many times you sanitize your pump parts.
And so, you know, if you’re pumping for a 10 month old, I mean, girl, I wouldn’t worry about that at all. But I do love that your product is NICU baby where we’re thinking about. We’re spraying it. We’re not using a finger. We’re counting milk in milliliters and we’re yeah, and we are thinking about small amounts and how it transfers into small amounts and keeping everything super clean in case we have a medically unwell baby.
So it seems like this product can really run the gamut as far as all types of babies. And I love that. I love that so much because honestly, the lanolin that you squirt on your finger, Hmm. For a NICU baby. I’ve never loved that and the smell of lanolin alone.
I hate it. I hate it guys. I hate it so much. I, I, I know you have sheep at your house.
Maureen: Because every time you come to my house, my whole yard smells like it.
Heather: Your whole life smells like lanolin to me and I can’t, I don’t even know how people farm. It’s like, A very annoying smell to me, but then also when you get it on you, no matter how many times you wash your hands. It’s meant to be waterproof and it just stayed there.
Maureen: It’s very effective as a waterproof barrier for animals who live outside.
Heather: And you know what else I was thinking? If dairy cows found out about CoBoo, they’d be like we’re ditching this lanolin. Can you please get us some CoBoo?
Jenny: Have you guys thought about lubing up that pump equipment at the farm? Because the cows would really like it. Maybe we need an extra big bottle for livestock.
Maureen: You should know, really, like, you know, go into agriculture with it.
Heather: You should, but then Jenny’s going to have a tarp to do her spray test because it’ll be one of those giant, like, spray cans. You know, we’ve, keep us around if you need more consulting about you know, where to take your business.
Michelle: You guys have the ideas we need is what we need from you guys.
You’re welcome.
Jenny: I will say that is what I started as a lubricant for my pump was bag bomb. Yeah. Like, yeah, like the green, it looks like a Christmasy color container. That was what I started with because I’m like, it works for the cows. Like
Heather: Jenny, that’s for butts, that’s for, I’ve seen other people use it too. No, I know.
I know, but I can’t tell you how many adult butts I’ve put that on as a nurse where I’m just like, Ooh, maybe that’s why.
Maureen: And I feel like that’s why I don’t like lanolin because I like I see it’s like a it’s a butt thing to me. I’m like, this is a very intense barrier we’re putting on.
Michelle: But I feel like as a woman, a pumping woman, when you do see cows, I swear you like almost are like My heart goes out to you.
Like, I just want to be like, is anyone like squeezing the udders to make sure there’s not like clogged ducts in there?
Maureen: No, let me tell you what. They have so much more research on pumping cow milk than human milk. Yeah, I bet. So, like, when we are trying to do research for episodes, especially on pumping, you know, and we’re like looking through databases and journals, 80 percent of what I see is agricultural journals talking about, Yeah.
Yeah. Dairy industry.
Heather: That’s where the money is. Yeah, I don’t know. I’m glad to see that we have two women that own a business, a very successful business that is changing the game because it’s not just helping people, but it’s helping. Our system see that there is value in what we can do for babies.
There’s value in the food that we create with our bodies. There’s value in businesses that support that process, and we should have more research on it, and we should have more products, and we should have more businesspeople that are interested in investing in these companies. So I really love that we could have you on the show today to talk about that.
Is there anything else about your business that you wanted to share? Because there’s a lot of listeners who are, I mean, I would say for the most part, our listeners are very highly educated women between the ages of 25 and 40, ambitious, ambitious, who are like, how’d you do it? And how’s it going? And tell us more about that.
Michelle: Well, for those people, one thing I do want to say, I guess this isn’t business related, but I’m kind of, I, I mean, I think I’m one of those people, right? I feel like I’m a go getter and I’m a mom, but I will say, so with my fourth baby, I figured, okay, like I had nursed and pumped for my first three for over a year each, you know, like, I mean, it wasn’t always beautiful and it wasn’t always great.
You know, my first one was kind of a disaster. Second one was like, was like Jen’s second one where I was like, oh my gosh, this baby sleeps through the night. Like breastfeeds easily. Like, oh my gosh, no wonder why people have so many of these. They’re great. Then my third one had the heart condition and then after that I was like, I can handle anything, right?
And then my fourth was born and nursing her was a pain I have never known. I mean, on one side only. It was so crazy to me. It would hurt so bad. I couldn’t even, like, hold still. And, like, latching her on, I was just, like, preparing myself for it. And then it would hurt so bad for the first, like, ten seconds.
I mean, seriously, like, worse than labor. Okay? And I had one of the babies epidural free. So, like, it was terrible. I cannot stress it enough. My nipples started cracking, well, just on the one side, and I just kept telling myself, like, there’s no one that’s going to be able to help me with this, like, I know all the things, you know, like, I, we, CoBoo existed, like, I have talked to so many, like, I’m in this industry, I don’t know what’s wrong, blah, blah, blah, so I’ve just got to, like, grit through this and bear it.
Well, finally, I reached out to a lactation consultant locally and just told her, like, She’s actually a really good friend of mine. I, like, called her up at, like, 11 p. m. one night and was like, You have to come help me. This hurts so bad. And I, like, told her on the phone kind of what was wrong and she was like, I will come over right now.
So she comes over in the middle of the night. Seriously, like, I cannot. Anyway, thank her enough. She is like a person that I’m like, I owe you everything. What do you need? She comes over in the middle of the night and she watches me kind of nurse on one side. Then we’re about to nurse on the other side.
And she’s like, Oh, okay. Here’s what we need to do. Like, we’re going to sit your baby up in the koala like hold, which I’d never heard of. And she’s like, okay, latch her on. And like, as I’m like moving the baby towards me, I’m just like, like, I kind of like almost latched her and then I pull her away cause I’m just like, no, you don’t know.
Like it hurts so bad. Like I can’t even get her on here. And finally I go for it and I kid you not, it didn’t hurt like that first time. It was amazing. It’s just like one of my favorite lactation stories because I was just like, there’s no way this can get better. Like I have tried everything and she just was like, yeah, here’s.
And then she came and she like did some work inside of her mouth with her fingers and it didn’t hurt after that. And then she came back about every week and read it like it would start to hurt again and she would come back and do like a little massage on my sweet baby and then kind of reposition her and it.
It didn’t hurt and she, you know, told me to put salt water on that side, you know, afterwards for a little bit to get the cracks to heal up and, and then, and then lubricate them, you know, just anyway. And it was like the best thing ever. So I will say that even when it’s your fourth baby and you feel like you have like tried everything and exhausted everything, like lactation consultants.
Are magic. Like, I don’t know what they do, but I mean, it was just awesome. So like. Just always ask for help, and if you go to someone and you don’t feel like you got the help you needed, go to someone else. Like, just keep going until you find a person that, like, you mesh with, that is willing to, like, go the extra mile, and is knowledgeable, and, like, there were so many times that she told me, you know, about clogged ducts to do things that I had never heard of, and I did them, and it totally worked, and I was just like, I don’t know what voodoo witch magic you’ve got going on over there, but like, it’s just the best.
So never be afraid to ask for help.
Heather: She gets the chef’s kiss.
Jenny: Yes. That’s so true. Like, I feel like meeting with a lactation consultant, if you’re planning to breastfeed or pump, either way, pick your person and plan on meeting with them. Don’t wait till you have problems. Just check in with them. Be like, Hey, I’m having a baby on this date.
If it comes earlier, I’m going to see you sooner. But like, you’re going to watch me breastfeed my baby multiple times because I want this to be a success. So like, I want your eyes on my boobs while I’m latching a baby. And I want all of your tips because the information that lactation consultants have will blow your mind.
So like, yes, use them every day after you have a baby.
Heather: I think we need t shirts that say I want all of your tips.
Trademarks. Yes, you do. And, tits. Okay, well, those are really good words of wisdom, but did you have any other parting words of wisdom?
Michelle: I guess if you want something like business minded. Sorry, I just really went off on a tangent there. If you want to. We love your team. Business minded, I would just say like never give up.
You know, the time that you… Feel like it’s the hardest and you want to throw the towel in just those are the times you’ve got to push through and then it’ll get easier and then it’ll get harder again and then it’ll get easier and over and over and over again and there will always be something new.
There will always be someone trying to like either delegitimize your product or try to. You know, make their own version of you or something like that. There will always be shortages of things. There will always be trials to overcome, but then you’ll have these moments of, Oh my gosh, it’s working. And it’s like, it’s like when you breastfeed your baby and it doesn’t hurt.
And you’re like, Oh my gosh, it’s working. And it’s so rewarding and just go for it and don’t give up.
Jenny: Right. And I would say as far as. Being a mom and running a business and trying to do all the things like figure out what you want to do, figure out what’s most important to you, figure out what home you want to raise your kids in, what kind of priorities are most important to you, build that and work on that and do it your way how you want to do it.
Figuring it out because you’re the most equipped person to be the mother And you’re the most equipped person to figure out what you want to do for work Like you can do all those things and find the balance and create it yourself Don’t wait for somebody else to give you the opportunity. Don’t wait for somebody to tell you you’re a good mom Don’t, don’t wait for advice on how you should be raising your kid.
Like, you make a plan for yourself and you do it. Like, you are a capable, amazing human that has a ton of love, and a ton of skill, and a ton of intelligence to like, share and make the world better. But like, do it the way you want to do it. Don’t be influenced by other people or wait for other people to confirm what you want to do.
Like, Do your thing and you have greatness and you to give and to share and to like build a business and build the home you want. Absolutely. Damn.
Heather: I’ve, I’ve been looking for a podcast episode on business to tell me all of those things I needed to hear right now as a 36 week pregnant business owner. So thank you for coming on to my podcast and giving me that message that I so desperately needed because you’re right.
Your business is very similar to your baby. Your business is your baby and you are the boss of both.
Maureen: Well, we, this has been such a fun interview. I would love it if you guys can just tell all of our listeners, like, how do they find you? You know, how, how can they buy your products?
Michelle: We have our website, CoBooMom.Com, C O B O O, mom. com.
Jenny: CoBoo, the name is coconut and boob together. C O B O O, like coconut and boob, mash them together. Like in the hotel room, we named it like on the spot. Here’s what we’ll name it. So that’s how it came with CoBooMom.Com.
Michelle: CoBooMom.Com, and then also we’re on Amazon. Search CoBoo and we’ve got, yeah, we’ve got our spray for pumping.
We’ve got our nip balm. We’ve got a lotion. We’ve got, we’ve got some other fun products and, and they’re all great.
Heather: All right. Well, I’m going to go order some of the stretch mark cream for my upper inner thighs.
Maureen: Can we get you some boob chapstick too?
Heather: And I want to see, well, I’m going to actually do a wholesale order for my store for the boob chapstick, because I love that so much better than the tubs of things as we’ve previously discussed.
So I have some work to do on my end now because you all are so awesome. So thank you again for coming on the show. Do you want to shout out your socials really quick?
Michelle: Sure. Yeah. Our Instagram is CoBooSpray and it’s just CoBoo on Facebook. And I know I don’t even know what our tech
Maureen: We’ll figure it out. We’ll put it. We will put all of those links in our show notes, as usual, to make it easy for them. We’re
Heather: on Tik Tok, somewhere,
Jenny: because I’m like, Oh, it just makes me so excited to like give away our products. Because I love like women to use them. And I’m so like, if you want free stuff, you reach out to Jen, because
Jen’s like the business, you’re just doing joy and giving it away and having them be successful.
And like, I know we’ve made the best product, so I just want
to give it away. Michelle’s like, no, like we have to pay for these things. Like somehow we have to make a little bit of money.
Bringing me great joy to just send you a big package. So you’ll be getting a package of CoBoo and all those baby things.
Heather: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right. Well, we hope to get in touch with you guys again soon. And we’re going to do some videos. And so if you can’t find them on TikTok, you can find us on TikTok and we will show you some of the ways that we use CoBoo for ourselves and our patients. But thank you all.
I hope you have an awesome year ahead in business and motherhood. And it was so great to get to know you. Yeah, you too. Thanks.
Michelle: Thanks for having us.
Jenny: And thanks for what you’re doing for women. It’s amazing.
Maureen: Thank you. Well, I had so much fun with them.
Heather: I never expect to have a great time in interviews. I’m always excited to meet people and see what they have going on, but we actually just kept talking for like 30 minutes after the episode was over because it just felt like we made a couple new friends and we were so happy about that.
Maureen: I’m not surprised that the creators of CoBoo were so much fun because you kind of have to be to have such a niche product. Like, if you are selling nipple lubricant. Like you, you have to be charismatic. You have to care a lot about your product.
Heather: Yeah, thanks for caring about my nipples, Jenny and Michelle.
I appreciate that so much.
Maureen: And truly, genuinely, you guys know we, we don’t stand behind products that we don’t use and we don’t like. And this, I mean, you know, Heather uses this literally every day in clinic. I recommend this to all of my clients who are asking about this. We could not love this more.
Heather: Mm hmm.
Absolutely. I have people stop into my store just to buy this as they should. Yeah, they’re not even my patients. They’re just like, Hey, I’m here for the CoBoo. And I’m like, Yep, it’s in the second drawer. Yep. Yeah. So if you want to get your CoBoo, hop over to CoBooMom.Com and enter promo code MilkMinute15 for 15 percent off your entire order.
Again, thank you so much to Jenny and Michelle for that amazing gift for our listeners that they definitely did not have to do for us. And we are so grateful.
Maureen: Thank you. Yeah. And check out their other products like the moisturizer and the nipple balm and you know, everything they have, let us know how, how much you love it.
We would love to hear that.
Heather: And I love that they said that it’s a giant chapstick for your nipple because my areolas could not be bigger right now at 36 weeks pregnant.
Maureen: I just cannot emphasize enough how much I love that we don’t have to stick our fingers into something that’s then going like on the pump, on the nipple, in the milk, because as we’ve said so many times, right, when we’re talking about like hygiene and keeping milk safe and sanitary, wash your hands is the first thing we say every time, because our hands are dirty.
Heather: Baseline bacteria count. They’re just never clean. I love it. All right. Well. If you want to catch some videos of us using CoBoo or how we like to use it in our office and on ourselves, you can actually catch us on our socials as well. Milk_Minute_Podcast on Instagram, as well as tick tock.
And of course you can join our free Facebook support group. Breastfeeding for Busy Moms and the Milk Minute Podcast.
Maureen: And you can join our Patreon where you’re going to see so much video and so much from Heather’s pregnancy. You’ll get to see her using this product while breastfeeding in a few weeks.
Heather: Oh my goodness. Oh yeah, I’m having a whole baby.
Maureen: Yeah, sorry to remind you, you’re pregnant.
Heather: Okay, well I’ll see you over on Patreon. We will not be live streaming my birth, but we will be giving you updates.
Maureen: Unless you get a wild hair, you know,
Heather: you never know what I’m going to do.
Maureen: Okay. Well, we have an award before we go today.
I want to give an award to one of our new patrons, Maya, who sent us a super wonderful message that I’ll read to you guys. She said, after listening to you all during my entire pregnancy and for the last 18 weeks of my kiddo’s life, I felt like it was definitely time to join you on Patreon. I never thought I’d be able to breastfeed since neither my mom nor grandma did, and I found the Milk Minute when researching lactation in early pregnancy.
I’ve learned so much from this podcast, and despite all kinds of issues with nursing in the early days, I now have a very happy nursing relationship with my daughter. That’s awesome. It is. It is. And we just. This like this message kind of hit me in the feels, you know, because a lot of us are sort of changing the story and changing our generational traditions and information education.
I don’t know. My idea for the award name for this was It’s like maybe a little intimidating, but I kind of like it, Heather.
Heather: Well, the first iteration was hilarious. We were going to give you the Mold Breaker Award. And then we were like, that sounded weird. So, Maureen went with the Harbinger of Change Award.
Maureen: In the most positive way that I can say that.
Heather: Yeah, does it sound pompous? Maybe, but you did it. That’s fine, because you deserve to be a little pompous about this. Put that feather in your cap, girl. You’re making new traditions in your family. Absolutely.
Maureen: So thank you so much for joining our Patreon, Maya.
And anybody, if you guys want an award in an episode, send us a message, tell us how wonderful you are, because we want to celebrate
Heather: you. And you can always email us at milkminutepodcast. gmail. com.
Maureen: Thanks for listening to another episode of the Milk Minute Podcast.
Heather: The way we change this big system that is not set up for lactating parents is by educating ourselves, our loved ones, and sometimes even our providers, and also supporting small businesses that support lactation.
Like
Maureen: CoBoo. And if you guys want to support us today, I’m just going to ask that you tell a friend about the podcast. You know, you have a pregnant friend, friend who’s struggling with breastfeeding, just like slide this in her DMs. You know, and let it work its
Heather: magic. Or I can just shout out rate, review, and subscribe.
I’ll
Maureen: do that. Okay. Thanks, guys. Okay. Bye.
