Transcript:
This is Maureen Farrell and Heather ONeal and this is The Milk Minute. We’re midwives and lactation professionals bringing you the most up-to-date evidence for all things lactation. So you can feel more confident about feeding your baby, body positivity, relationships, and mental health. Plus, we laugh a little or a lot along the way.
So join us for another episode. Welcome to the Milk Minute Podcast everybody. Yes. Welcome. It’s been so long. It’s been like seven whole days. Well, I drove up here to record in person today. Thank God. I’ve missed you. It’s very exciting and it means I’m not like in the coworking space all alone at 8:00 PM, which is kind of creepy or when I think I’m alone and then like turns out somebody up on the second or third floor, like doing something.
I dunno, like moving furniture is what it sounds like. But anyway, I was driving here and I was like, oh, I’m gonna stop at Dunkin Donuts, get myself a coffee as you do. And I’m like, so because I’m on call for like and sometimes I have to drive like really fast to them, I make a point of being kind of like a very relaxed, like lackadaisical, like slow driver, otherwise.
Cause I’m like, you know, I just want to be like slow methodical. So like when I do have to drive really fast, maybe it just like decreases my overall chances of like accident and horror if I don’t drive like that all the time. Anyway. So I’m doing my thing, like just normal speed, going over to the drive-through and this lady cuts me off in the drive-thru line at Dunkin Donuts.
Like guys, there is not a rush on donuts. I am the only person driving up to the drive-thru. Oh like, like that changes things. There isn’t, it’s not crowded. Did she flick you off on her way in? No, but this is like the Dunkin Donuts in Shinnston. Like nobody’s there, nobody’s there. And she like really like very sharply cuts me off aggressively pulls up, orders, aggressively gets her donuts and I’m just like, okay.
So like, not today, Sally. Sugar rage. Mama sugar rage. Maybe she’s diabetic and she’s crashing. It was a lot, she was like, this is an emergency. It was a lot. But I was listening actually to the Love of Holistic Radio podcast. Which so you guys have probably heard me mention before that I loved the OB-GYNO Wino podcast.
So Nathan Riley, the OB-GYNO, I know has changed gears. He does not work for hospitals anymore. All he is doing now, as far as I can tell is he’s, he’s decided to start a 501C3 for his podcast, which he has renamed Beloved Holistics. Oh. He is focusing on changing women’s healthcare and reproductive healthcare.
He is focusing more on midwifery and promoting the midwifery model and he has started a collaborator program where midwives like you and me can join and get a consult with an OB on patients. I’m sorry, how did he get out? I, he just left. I don’t know. How did they let him out? Isn’t there some kind of unbreakable bond code, like underground meeting place where the masterminds of the medical system decide who gets in and out and who has access and who doesn’t?
I don’t know, but I was listening to, I had actually like taken a pause when his old podcast ended and didn’t realize he started the new one already. Yeah. So I was listening for the first time and he starts everything with like a deep breath.
Okay. And so I was like taking my deep breath as I got cut off in the drive through. And I was like, you’re lucky I’m listening to this podcast, deep breathing right now. Thank you, Nathan. Or I might’ve just rear-ended her. And he’s got this like, amazing intro where he’s basically just like, Hey, here’s what I am. Here’s what I’m doing. Like midwives, moms, dads, whoever, I support you, I’m here for you. And it just makes me tear up. We should bring him on. And I think we should. Everyone go follow him and we can bring him on and then you’ll know what we’re talking about. Yeah. Anyway, I just thought I was like, it was a funny moment. He saved me from a fender bender.
Also I just love everything he’s been doing. So we’re probably creating fender benders as people are listening to our podcast, on the flip side. Like we’re just enraging people are like, yeah, we’ll give you the answer at the end of the podcast, but first we’re going to get you really pissed. Maybe that’s what the lady was listening to who cut you off. Maybe she was listening to me. Maybe.
Wouldn’t that be a turn? That would be hilarious. Love it. Yeah. Well, I’m almost done with my office. I am so excited. Yeah. It’s been a journey and it’s looking beautiful and I’m getting so excited and I want to plan a virtual ribbon cutting. I don’t know what that is, but I’m going to design one. I think it will be fun.
Can you come? But not virtual. I’ll be there like reality Maureen. Okay. All right. Well, we are talking about oversupply today. This is exciting, but before we get into it, do we have a question? Well, actually we have a really awesome first-hand account with a question built in. Oh, okay. Over supply, which is also known as Hyperlactation or Hypergalactia or galac-shia, maybe if you’re a British.
I don’t know. Sometimes we just look at words that we’ve only read in textbooks and we just go for it, you know. So I’m going to use all of those words interchangeably throughout this so prepare thyself. Probably the one that’s easiest to say. We’re going to, well, the reason I don’t just want to say oversupply is because technically, although there is no official definition for what an oversupply is, if we lean into common sense, it means more than what your infant needs. However, most of us in America at least function at a slight oversupply, right? So that can mean even like five ounces more in a 24-hour period than what your infant needs.
Technically you have an oversupply. But when you say hyperlactation, that’s really getting the point across of what we’re really talking about today, which is like a condition, right. We’re talking about something where we need intervention. Right. Okay. Got it. So before we get started, I just need to say that, and correct me if I’m wrong.
So if you’re in another country, other than the United States, please email us and tell us what your cultural expectations are for supply when you’re pregnant. But here in America, I feel as if we might be one of the only developed countries where women feel than an oversupply is normal and not just that, but they feel like that’s what they should be shooting for.
I mean, like literally just five minutes ago in our Facebook group, I saw, you know, another post that was like, look, I pumped a whole bottle and there’s like eight ounces from one boob. And what perpetuates it is obviously on social media, when you have posts like that, other people congratulate you on your freezer stash of milk.
And you’re, you know, creating unnecessary nervousness in people who are just enoughers. Yeah. I mean, there’s that, and I think there’s also then the way that we have like our pediatricians and other doctors who care for infants are kind of taught to speak to parents about milk supply issue. And to be honest, as a pediatrician who only gets to see this patient infrequently, it probably makes you feel more comfortable knowing they have plenty of milk supply.
You’ll even chart abundant milk supply just to like CYA, you know, and you’ll be like, oh great. And the patient’s like, oh, I’m pumping eight ounces. I’m pumping 10 ounces. And they’re like, great. That’s amazing because they know, at least your baby’s not going to starve to death. Yeah. And that’s not, you know, it it’s like, that doesn’t mean that you’re a bad pediatrician, but it means that the system that has taught you how to care for the lactating dyad has failed.
Yeah. And also when you’re thinking about formula and dealing with maybe even more formula patients than breastfeeding patients, it’s very hard if you don’t have a really solid knowledge in breastfeeding to differentiate those two things. So we just want to say that that is a thing and we are sorry for it for everybody involved.
It’s a difficult situation. It’s also difficult because the society we live in forces parents back to work six weeks after birth sometimes and reminds them daily that if breastfeeding doesn’t work out, there’s always formula. Oh yeah. Lots of ad campaigns that absolutely break the rules that we have about this, that basically just present formula as a better alternative than physiologically normal feeding.
Right. And physiological, normal feeding is also one of those definitions that’s like, what is that? Does it have a hard line? Can you point to one thing and be like, that’s normal? No, because what’s normal is different for every person. It’s a spectrum. Yeah. So first of all, let me say, although there is no official definition for oversupply, we can assume that we can’t really diagnose this earlier than one to two weeks postpartum because of the swelling from birth and initial engorgement. So once those things have resolved, if you have an oversupply that is still there, then we can safely say like something’s going on.
So personally I feel that we edge into oversupply when there is pain and discomfort, and we’re looking at increased risk of mastitis and things like that, you know, because right. Like, so for example, right now I’m operating at quote technical oversupply. I put away two to five ounces every day. Right. But if I don’t put that haakaa on to collect it, it’s fine.
I don’t have engorgement. I don’t have pain. But if we’re in a situation where if I neglected to remove that extra milk and it was a problem, like that’s when I see that as oversupply. If you neglect to remove the amount of milk that you’re comfortable removing, you know, like, yeah. The two to five ounces is something that you’re like comfortable managing and receiving.
You’re like, okay. Yeah. Two to five extra ounces. And like, if we go to the zoo and I’m not like putting on the haakaa in the carrier, it’s not a big deal. I don’t come home. Like, oh no, I have a clog. I’m getting get mastitis. Right. But a true overproduction of breastmilk can become seriously out of control and have consequences that are not only uncomfortable, but they can lead to real true issues and early weaning.
Oh yeah. So if you are not sure if you have a supply issue, obviously work with somebody like a lactation consultant to find out, but we also just did an episode called up-regulating and down-regulating supply that’s Episode 83. So if you’re listening to this and you’re like, oh, I think I actually have an under supply and you need to boost it, but you want to make sure you do that safely so you don’t cause an oversupply, please go to Episode 83 and make sure you’re doing it safely and correctly so things don’t get out of control. Yeah.
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But how do you know that there are any good? It’s really going to be filled with five makeup, hair and skin products from top brands. And it’s different every month, right? Yeah. It’s packaged with love by their in-house beauty experts and delivered to your doorstep every month. Oh my gosh. That just like tickles me pink and I’m so excited about it.
Well, if you guys at home want to try Glossy Box you can get $10 off a three-month subscription by following the link in our show notes and join me in rubbing on all the creams and smelling all the smells and using all the best hair products. So use the link in our show notes to get your discount at Glossy Box today.
Okay. Let’s read a firsthand account from one of our very sweet, gracious listeners, Katie Grove. Okay. I’m excited. Okay. Katie says, Hey, Heather and Maureen. First, I want to thank you both for all your hard work. Hey, no problem. You’re welcome. I enjoy the Milk Minute so much and really wish I had it when I was breastfeeding my first, babe. I’ve learned so much. Here’s some backstory on my first baby. Oh no, it’s going to be, it’s going to be a bad one. Isn’t it? Yeah. Grab a tissue. Okay. I assumed breastfeeding was going to come naturally the first time. Ha my big mistake. I saw an LC in the hospital and once as an outpatient. It was not a great experience.
I was told her latch was fine and then it would become easier when her mouth got bigger. She would immediately fall asleep when I would try to nurse her. I did not think she was latched at all. Barely felt anything. She was jaundice and did not have wet diapers, day five after birth so I pumped and started giving her bottles.
I would pump once a day and was freezing milk the first week of her life. I would also use a haakaa on the other boob and would give whatever was in the haakaa to her in a bottle. After my outpatient LC appointment, I was told that I should be pumping at least four times a day so I could maintain a supply.
I was also told to pump until empty. So that’s what I did. Four times a day. Each pump session was about 45 minutes in the beginning. I never really felt empty. But would just get sick of it. I never did a middle of the night pump. I know, lucky me LOL, but still tried nursing and using the haakaa during the night.
Fast forward a few weeks and I basically gave up on nursing and would give bottles only. I was also making about 90 ounces per day. It was insane and overwhelming. I had a standing freezer filled with milk three months postpartum, and yet still didn’t think it would be enough. The pandemic started three weeks after I gave birth so the fear of COVID and what if scenarios would not leave my head. Then I started donating so I had an oversupply for a long time, not 90 ounces the whole 14 months, but slowly got an under control. I am pregnant again, 25 weeks. Congrats. What am I going to do this time? I am having a hard time making a decision. I wish nursing would have worked out, but I’m also a physician’s assistant and will have to go back to work after 12 weeks.
And my kids will be in daycare, AKA needing bottles. I feel the mom guilt that nursing did not work out and that I missed out on a connection or something. I also do not want the crazy oversupply. I hope I will be able to take all the information I’ve learned and apply it to this upcoming breastfeeding journey.
Oh my gosh. 90 ounces a day. If I, if, if some of you at home just directly feed and don’t pump, you might not have a reference for how much that is, but on average, babies who are birth to six months drink about 25 ounces in a 24-hour period. So that is a lot. That’s a lot. She could have quadruplets, right?
Very comfortably. Yeah. So Katie, thank you so much for that question. And Maureen and I chatted about it. And as a thank you for your firsthand account, we would really like to extend a yearlong membership to our Patreon for you as one of our top tier patrons called a Dairy Queen so we can follow up with you during our live Q and A’s.
Because we know what a struggle it is to have an oversupply and also we’ve got some psychological stuff playing in because this is a new baby. You know, this is possibly a different scenario. So we have a chance to start fresh and we want to make sure that we are working with you the whole time to make sure you stay on track that you don’t have this issue again, because that’s what we are here for.
That is our whole thing. Is making sure that you can have the kind of life you want. You can go back to work and you can be comfortable and you cannot have mom guilt. You can connect with your babies and you cannot feel any friggin shame. So we will be sending you the login information as soon as we figure out how to do that.
Yeah, I mean, and, and it is possible to, first of all, not at any of these problems, just from the get-go, it is totally possible your body was like over supply that time, normal supply this time. It is possible it will happen again and we can help you manage it. It is possible it will be totally different in some other completely unpredictable way.
And it will be, yes. So I hope that this episode is really helpful for you in first of all, reflecting on your first experience and seeing where things began to go haywire there. Because only you can only do that. Right? Like, I don’t know your full experience. All I know is that snippet. So I can’t say, well, it was this day that you started pumping like this.
I don’t know that, but I think that you can reflect after this episode and then we can follow up and kind of then from that reflection, make a plan for the future. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Well, hopefully this episode answers all of your questions for you, but if not, we’ll see you in the live Q and A’s. Okay.
Are we going to talk about the Academy of Breastfeeding Medicine? Girl you know, it. I guys, if you haven’t caught on already, for the most part, if you need a step-by-step what to do in like these medical cases for lactation, ABM has a protocol for it, you know? And so it’s a really good thing just to have in your reference list.
You know whether or not it’s the best source we will find out. Huh? I think it is the best place to go. I do. Do I think it could be improved? I think everything can always be improved. That’s just my nature. And I will gladly highlight it for you later. I think, I think spoiler, Heather has some criticisms today.
I’ve just been low level, slow burn, under the radar for a long time about some of these things. And today I’m finally over it. So I’m so excited. I love when you just like, let it rip and you’re like roasting. Oh my gosh. I didn’t even realize I did that until the day I was sitting in mediation with my lawyer and my ex-husband and his lawyer.
And they asked me a question that just like hit right the button they shouldn’t have hit. And I went off like in a very, you know, I had a moment and my lawyer said, okay, we’re going to take a little break. We walked into the hallway and he laughed. And he goes, wow, that was such an incredible soliloquy.
And I was like, yeah, I’m sorry. That was a long time coming. And so is this one. So strap in folks. Oh, man. I’m so excited. Let’s get it. Let’s go. Okay. So first of all, what causes an oversupply? You know, a lot of people have to reverse engineer what happened and so that’s why when Maureen says reflect on what happened, that means go back to the beginning as we’re talking through this stuff and see if any of these things possibly happened to you.
And this information is from the Academy of Breastfeeding Medicine Protocol Number 32, which we will obviously link in the show notes. So multiple factors go into what regulates milk supply and any of these being quote unquote off significantly in one direction can tip the scale into either oversupply or undersupply territory.
So can I just say off like a very vague term. I like how you have it in quotes in your notes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, because it there’s, no, there’s nothing we can point to that says, like, if you pump this amount of times, this will happen. It’s like, if it’s off for you. Yeah. This is very subjective, which is why we see a lot of inconsistency for how we manage it.
Yep. So, first of all, how much mammary glandular tissue do you have? And the more babies you have, the more memory glandular tissue you have. Yes. And of course, as we have mentioned in our MythBusters episodes, that isn’t just about breast size. Breast size is usually determined by fatty tissue. So you might not know, aside from how many babies you’ve had, like what else could be influencing the amount of glandular tissue that you have, right.
It could be genetic. I mean, it could, you know, multiples. When you have twins can sometimes do that for you. So the other thing is how much your alveolar tissue will expand in the breast. Oh. So some people, I guess, have alveolar tissue that can be distended more than others. Do you think this is them related to what we call breast storage capacity?
Yes. Oh, okay. Oh, sort of, yes. I think so. Yes, but also it’s a question of like, is it how much it can store or is it a threshold that you reach before the prolactin search happens? Oh, interesting. So there’s a timing. Okay. Question mark. If anybody out there as a researcher. Yeah. This protocol from ABM actually has a really good section at the end on what research is needed.
That’s my favorite thing. That’s my favorite thing about ABM. So if you’re a PhD student and you’re like, I don’t know what to do my work in, just go to ABM’s website, literally look at any protocol on ABM and go to the bottom and they will tell you what you can research. Five things you could study right there.
So another thing is how much and how often the milk is emptied. And I think this one is probably the most obvious. You know, this whole supply and demand thing. So if you empty it, your body will be like, oh, really? It’s gone. You used it all. I shall make more. You shall be so proud of me, prolactin, prolactin, prolactin, surge, and surge.
And then it’s like a whole thing. Okay. And then another thing that can affect it is this impossibly complex neuro-endocrine pathway system that we barely understand. Yeah. There is so much to that. And even like specialists, I think specialist especially acknowledge that there is a lot to learn there.
And a lot of this information that we get is from the dairy industry with cows. Super weird guys, if you’ve ever tried to Google for scholarly articles about lactation a hundred percent, you are seeing articles about other mammals. Right. Who we make money off of. Well, something that’s interesting that I forget which one of the research articles that I read actually said, this was in the dairy industry.
There is not a farmer on the planet who would look at a cow and be like, this cow just doesn’t make milk. Right. Because they have a financial interest in the cow making milk. But in humans we’re like this one just doesn’t make milk, the end. Yeah. And here’s some formula. What the fuck? Cow, you are worth something to us.
Human you are worth nothing. I think I, you know, we were just these really awesome wild animals. And we were like eating berries and, you know, starting an agricultural revolution. And then we just had to ruin it with an economy and like credit scores.
Come on people. I still think you’re a bit of a wild animal who eats berries. That’s how I imagine you in your home. But I still have a credit score.. Thank God. Or you wouldn’t be able to buy anything. Right.
So other things like in the neuroendocrine pathways is these endocrine disruptors that we are surrounded within our life. You know, so we don’t know exactly what they are. There’s not like a list that’s definitive that we can be like, oh, this deodorant is causing this endocrine disruption. Is probably like our entire American packaged food diet. Could be, it might be that a Crock-Pot liner that I accidentally used for 11 hours the other day that made all my meat taste like plastic then we did not eat.
Maybe it’s like the formaldehyde in literally everything we touch. Could be. Like paper towels. Did you know there’s formaldehyde in paper towels? What? Okay. Can I, can I go off on a tangent? Okay. All right. So I started this new treatment protocol with my acupuncturist, who she needed some people for case studies for a class she’s taking.
And I was like, oh, that’s me. Just volunteering over here for free needles. Needles for acupuncture, for acupuncture. And I guess this new like methodology she’s learning is about unpeeling layers that lead to deeper issues. So we did the first session a few days ago and like, I guess it works from like shallow to deeper, and this is all Chinese medicine.
So the methodology and modality is all very, very different than Western medicine than what we’re used to here. But anyway, I guess the first session worked off like the worked in the first kind of shallow layers of stuff that is disrupted and unbalanced in my body. And some of the things that she found was that I am having some B Vitamin deficiencies. Probably could have told you that, but I was like confirmation, great.
And that I needed to work on supporting my kidneys, which means a different thing in Chinese medicine than Western medicine. It’s not like I’m having renal problems or failure or whatever, but it’s like, oh, okay. If you need to work with those, like here’s some herbs you take or here’s some, like you need heat and wet versus dry and cold and whatever.
And then the other thing she pointed out was there were some like toxicity markers for formaldehyde. And I was like, okay, just go home and Google that shit. Oh fuck. There is formaldehyde in everything. This desk in front of us full of formaldehyde girl. Formaldehyde is what you use to preserve bodies.
Yeah. There’s this block I’m sitting on just full of formaldehyde. Paper towels. I mean, everything. All right. Yeah. We preserve dead cells in it. It does not keep them alive though. Keeps them dead. Like this is not, this is not something you want in or near your body when you’re alive. So that’s Maureen’s private message to you.
Everything will kill you. Anyway, move to a farm and get a sheep to hug. So now I’m just like, now I’m like walking around my house, just like, how can I reduce my formaldehyde exposure? You probably can’t. It’s okay. Might have to cut that out in case people are rear-ending people at Dunkin Donuts now. That’s what I’m talking about, Maureen, this bad news that you keep giving people. Disclaimer don’t listen while driving. May induce rage.
If you want, you can check out Episode 34, which is the episode where we interviewed Sasha May of Impact Healing on acupuncture while breastfeeding. She’s wonderful. And love her so much. She was a hoot. Yes. I’m sorry. So back to oversupply. No, no, you’re good. You’re good. So another thing that can cause an oversupply is these bioactive factors like serotonin signaling that we also barely understand. Fun.
I love that. We’re just open to new learning opportunities here. Well, the serotonin and dopamine relationship is interesting and prolactin, you know, so it’s like we were talking about layers and there’s actually layers of how our like upstream and downstream problems with this you know, access in our body of endocrine.
I don’t guys not even get into it today, but we are not endocrinologists. Also endocrinologists, if you are, come on the show, please. So basically now that you know, kind of those top reasons that oversupply can happen, you can probably deduce that this means that sometimes this overproduction is self-induced.
So this is not to shame anybody. This is just stating that expectations were clearly not given to you and therefore you did not know what was best for your breastfeeding relationship or how to fix it. Or like why nobody explained the mechanism of action for creating more milk and gave you incomplete instructions.
And you didn’t know what happened until it was far too late. And also it could be I attra genic, which means, yeah. As Maureen insinuated, this means that healthcare professionals literally told you to do this. As well as like take medication and other galactagogues to increase your supply without proper follow-up or guidance.
So this is one of my biggest pet peeves. Like if you think a patient who is breastfeeding actually needs an intervention and you recommend an intervention, but you don’t recommend when to stop or what could happen, you’re wrong, you’re just wrong. And I just did a whole rant about it on Tik TOK the other day.
Good. It needs to change. I don’t think people realize that these, this one simple thing that you said to somebody actually put them into a yearlong battle. Yeah. And that they blame themselves for. I mean this, a lactation intervention, even if it does not involve medication needs to be treated like adding a medication. There needs to be follow-up within a reasonable timeline.
There needs to be a plan for either increasing the intervention or ceasing the intervention. I mean, it’s, it’s like, you know, with my meds, with my doctor, I do labs every eight weeks. We talk about it on the phone after that. We decide if my dosage is correct, you know, that needs to happen if a doctor says you need to pump and bottle feed, or you need to pump after feedings and feed that milk, or you need to formula feed. All of that should be seen as a medical intervention that needs follow up.
Yeah. Because if you casually tell somebody, oh, why don’t you just pump after every feed and you don’t tell them when to stop or what’s going to happen and you create an oversupply, that person could have their job affected. Their relationship could be affected. I mean, when you’re pumping that much every day, you could also end up them with a real, you know, what we consider a real medical issue, where you have infections and all, I mean yeah, we’re going to talk about that in a second here.
I’m sorry. I keep getting ahead. Oh, it’s fine. We feel passionate about this. Cause like this, I think Heather and I have both many times seen people in the late stages of oversupply crisis come to us who blame themselves. Yep. And they should not. No. And pretty much every time it is some doctor’s fault in the first two weeks after they had their baby or a lactation consultant.
Sorry. Yep. Or a nurse? Somebody. Yeah, someone did it. I just like every time I’m like, oh, this is literally one day. Now that you mentioned it, I don’t recall any of these patients having the grandmother figure or mother figure telling them to do this. Those ones are usually like, feed them formula or feed them cereal or solid foods.
But rarely do you see a mom or grandmother say like, you need to be pumping after every feed. It’s usually something else. So this feels very healthcare related. I mean, it’s probably because like pumps were just not a realistic thing for people in older generations. Yeah. This is also a new problem.
Like remember in our History of Breast Pumps Episode where we talked about how the at-home breast pump was really not a thing until the nineties. Yeah. So like gen, gen X probably the first generation of parents that really had good access to that. Right. But research wise, that’s why there’s not a whole lot on this because this is new.
This is a new thing that we’ve done to ourselves. Can you imagine if you were just hand expressing like a psychopath like back in the day? You would have wrists of steel. People would be like, why is that lady touching her herself, the baby’s right there. Just put it on. But because you put a pump on people like slow clap for you, like you’re such a hero and it’s like fucked up.
Yeah. Anyway. So the third thing it could be is idiopathic, which means this is happening to you with no clear reason. Perhaps it’s that pesky neuroendocrine or bioactive signaling that we don’t quite understand yet. But just to show you how confusing this part is, this idiopathic part, in non-lactating women, so people that have never had a baby, they’ve never lactated who have a pituitary gland tumor, which can sometimes stimulate too much prolactin. It can make you lactate. So if you’re, you’ve never had a baby, but suddenly you’re lactating, they’re looking at your pituitary gland, looking for a tumor. However, in a lactating parent who has a pituitary tumor with too much prolactin, it can actually inhibit milk supply.
So what the heck is that? So who knows, who knows? Yeah. So basically it’s not as simple as throw some prolactin at it. That does not work. We’ve tried it, you know, we’ve had patients that are low milk supply and we’re like here, just take prolactin. Nope. Why? Don’t know. Very complex, like this stuff. No, I shall not receive it.
Thank you. We don’t have the receptors for that. Maybe if I wasn’t lactating, I would. Ha right. So annoying. So a lot of people are at home and they’re like, oh my God, I felt full yesterday. Do I have oversupply? Well, here’s how you might know. Now this is one of those things where there’s not a rule. Like if you have three out of five symptoms and you have it.
It’s more just like, I’m going to tell you what all of the symptoms are and if you feel like you have a lot of them, you should call someone. You know, my kind of rule of thumb is if you check off enough symptoms on this list that it is affecting your life, it is affecting your happiness, your health. It is affecting like what you can and cannot do in your life. If you’re eliminating other things in your life to make room for pumping and you have a hundred ounces in the freezer and it’s becoming an issue.
I agree. Yeah, I agree. So here’s some of the things that people with an oversupply experience. Rapid left down. So like a fire hose of milk shooting out of your bosom. Excessive flow. So even between the letdowns, you have a flow, that’s just like crazy, just constantly squirting. Choking and gasping by the infant.
So the infant is not able to adequately manage that flow as it’s coming out. Shallow latch that causes nipple pain. So this is like when your breast is so engorged that the baby literally can’t soften that nipple enough to get it all the way to the back of its mouth. And of course, if you have nipple pain that makes people want to take a break from latching, which makes them pump more. Anyway, anyway excessive milk leakage.
So some milk leakage is normal. Okay. Like you hear a baby cry at the store, leaking. Been a few hours since you fed, leaking. Fine. But if you’re leaking like 24 7, and you’re soaking through pads and soaking through shirts, there could be an indication. Continually engorged and leaking breasts. So if you’re engorged all the time, I mean all the time.
And it’s after that first two weeks of life and you’re in pain, that could be a sign. Increased weight gain in the infant, which I thought was interesting. So that’s the high lactose milk where they’re constantly getting sugar. Right. And that’s a good reminder that fat in milk does not directly cause that high weight gain in babies, it’s actually sugar.
We turn sugar to fat. Yep. And fats harder to burn, which burns calories. Yeah. Fogginess. So I didn’t really see it anywhere. Like brain fog, which I’m assuming is how prolactin interacts with like the serotonin and dopamine and all that. Well it is like a sleep hormone as we’ve talked about before. Interesting. Yep.
Excessive gas in the baby. Okay. Explosive green stools resembling mucus. Right. And both of those are due to too much lactose, right? Yep. Okay. Those by themselves might not be anything. So babies have gas. Yeah. Don’t freak out if you have a gassy baby with green stool, but if you have that, in addition to some of the other things we’ve talked about.
Yeah. So then if you have these symptoms for a long period of time, maybe not even. What is long? They also didn’t specify what long is. I mean, man, I’d say for most people it could be, it could be a week. It could be. Yeah, absolutely. And you could get acute mastitis, plugged ducts, nipple blebs, vasospasms, chronic breast pain, exclusive pumping and of course, early weaning.
Right. But they did not mention job loss, divorce, you know, isolation, postpartum depression, financial trouble. I mean, people get into a cycle of having to continually buy storage bags, pump parts, new freezers. I mean, it’s a, it’s a lot. Yeah, it is a lot. So I just, I would probably petition ABM to put that in there cause that’s a huge deal.
And, and I would ask them to consider whether or not we have enough evidence to support over-supply causing mental health issues or being correlated with them. Because if you have to pump so much you cannot do things that make you happy and you cannot lead what you consider a normal life, you think you’re not going to be depressed? I mean, I would be depressed. Right? Absolutely.
So part of the problem here is that we don’t know what is quote unquote normal. Yeah. So I just with Maureen, I know you’ll back me up on these, but please feel free to add any that I didn’t think of. So let’s quickly list some things that are normal to dispel any doubt in your mind that you need 4,000 ounces of milk in a freezer.
Okay. So the first one I thought of was that the average working pumping parent only has about 10 extra ounces of milk in the freezer at any given time. Most people have enough milk for tomorrow. Yeah. Cause you’re pumping the milk to replace when they’re gone. Yeah.
Babies cry for other reasons besides being hungry. Absolutely. And I think that’s a really hard thing for first-time parents to discern and it’s a, it’s a learning game. So reach out and ask, and don’t just ask your grandma or your mom, because they’ll be like feed it. It hates your milk. It wants formula. Like phone a friend who’s breastfed three children or more, and be like, why is my baby crying?
And they’ll probably be like, oh, have you tried this? And you’re like, no, I need to fart. The other one I came up with was just because you had low milk supply with your last baby does not mean you are going to have a low supply with this baby. So you don’t need to overcompensate just in case. Right.
And then the amount of milk volume that your breastfed baby needs will not increase over time. On average infants consistently eat three and a half to four ounces of pump, breast milk in a bottle forever. Yeah. And I will add sometimes after six weeks we see the amount babies eat at once increase. Sometimes then we have a longer gap between feedings. Sometimes not, but we still are not incrementally increasing on a predetermined schedule.
Right. So if you’re trying to do the math early on to see how much milk you’re going to need in the freezer, don’t assume that baby’s going to need more. So also you do not need a million teas, herbal supplements, body armor, et cetera, to increase your milk supply. They should not be things that we are ingesting prophylactically to make sure that your supply is there. Nope.
Nope. I think that all of those, again, should be seen as medical interventions with a start and a stop date, a plan, a, you know. An educated professional guiding you or really good informational sources guiding you. Yeah. This should not be stuff that we are putting in people’s baby shower baskets. Nope.
You know, they don’t need it. They don’t need it. And if they do need it, they need a hell of a lot more than a box of tea for over the counter from Kroger. Yeah. They need a lactation consultant. Yep. Also feed on demand. This crap of feed your baby for 15 to 20 minutes on each side, recommendation that people get at the hospital, so they have something to chart in their electronic health record.
They say, feed your baby every two to three hours. Yes. But that makes you think you have to wait two to three hours to feed your baby, which the whole thing is here, this recommendation of 15 minutes on each side can actually hurt your supply in both directions because some kids only want to eat for five to 10 minutes and that’s okay.
And other kids want to eat for 45 minutes. And that’s also, okay. So we’re not scheduling feedings and we are not cutting kids off. You know your baby has done when they unlatch themselves and they’re content or they fall asleep and the nipple falls out of their mouth. That’s how you know when they’re done.
And then the last one I had was it’s normal to feel full sometimes. Right. Especially in the first six weeks. And especially if your baby is at the beginning of sleeping long stretches at night. It is also normal to stop feeling full. Yes. So that doesn’t mean you have to start pumping like a maniac. Right. So if you don’t, if you no longer feel full after the six-week mark, that’s a good thing.
Like you’re, you’re not meant to feel full all the time because nature has accounted for that. You know, it doesn’t want us to be uncomfortable all the time cause then we’ll stop doing it. Right. But the hyperlactation is when you’re full all the time and could pump until the cows come home and barely get any relief.
Yeah. So that’s the difference. Okay, so what next? Maureen, why don’t you help me with this one? Okay. So I, so let’s pretend I have it. I have oversupply, I’ve listened to this episode. I’m like, yes, this is me. I’ve got all this stuff going on. What do I do? I want you to seek professional help with a lactation professional as soon as possible.
This might be an IB CLC, might be a CLC more than what letters they have after their name. I would like ask around and see who’s good but call them right away. Because even if you follow all of the steps that we mentioned in Episode 83, It is really, really important to have a professional supervising and whom you can get like professional feedback from.
Okay. Because we don’t want to lead to infections. Yeah. I mean, ABM recommends 24 to 48 hours of close supervision. But honestly, in my experience with these patients, it’s at least a week where we’re texting back and forth and adjusting the block scheduling and stuff with a two-week check-in like, okay, we still good? Everything’s still good?
I feel like this is a lot like the immediate postpartum with my clients. Right. I see them at 24 hours. I see them around four days. Sometimes I come back around 10 days and then two weeks, you know, and that is mostly about breastfeeding. Yeah. So if you don’t have someone that can do that, who you feel comfortable with, I can do virtual consults with you. And I keep a really close eye on these patients because I worry about plugged ducts and mastitis. And I also want to make sure that baby is still adequately wetting diapers, right? We don’t want to swing this in the wrong direction. Like we’re looking to support normal functioning and not go one way or the other too much.
I’ll put my link to my virtual consults in the show notes if you’re like, oh my God, I have no one. I live in a desert. There’s like, literally no one here who can help me. That’s why we made this podcast! Literally why we do what we do. So, so I think then you, you have your LC you’re working with, right?
What are we doing next? So we first have to figure out what happened and we get to be detectives. We get to be breast detectives and figure out what the heck caused this, you know, because a lot of the time we have to fix some of the psychological stuff that’s gone on whether or not that’s from expectations, culturally, or expectations that your healthcare provider accidentally put on you. Or, you know, if it really is idiopathic to see if it’s something obvious, you know, are you slathering yourself a formaldehyde? Stop doing that.
You know what I mean? So we have to figure out what’s causing it as we’re taking steps towards lowering the supply. And I just have to say there are some blood tests that some people do where they’ll take a baseline prolactin, and then you feed or pump for 10 minutes and then you take another prolactin sample of blood and the baseline should be 100 or less.
And the second level should be about twice the first measurement. But it honestly doesn’t really tell you anything that you don’t already know from the symptomatology. And it’s not recommended by ABM. This is kind of one of those things that it’s like we’ve done for research. And it’s like question mark and can just cause some anxiety.
And also it’s like, okay, we’re still gonna do the same things to lower the supply anyway so why are we sticking people? You know, I have to say I was only half listening because as soon as you said breast detectives, like my brain went on a tangent where we became cartoon characters and it was like a trailer for our TV show.
Yeah. See TikTok for our new breast detective segment. I think I’m back though. It was cute. It was a good show. Maureen, breast detective, Heather, the breast detective around. Where in the world is Maureen, Breast Detective?
Oh gosh. I’m back. I’m back. Hey, back in the room. Okay. So once we figure out what caused it, we’re going to stop doing that. And then we’re most likely going to begin with block feeding. Yes. I prefer to do full drainage block feeding with my patient. I’ve found that this is scary for people because you actually do pump to empty to begin with.
But I have found it causes less mastitis as we’re toggling this milk down a little bit. Can you tell us what full drainage block feeding versus block feeding is? Yeah. So full drainage block feeding is where you begin this whole process by fully emptying the breasts with your pump. You can use your baby too, but you know, your pump and even using a vibrating massager on the outside to ensure that those milk lakes are empty.
Now, milk lakes is like just a name to help you visualize what’s going on in there. It’s not like an actual scientific term. No, they’re just the same stuff. Yeah. But then depending on the severity of the oversupply after you fully drain, you’re going to begin feeding in blocks of time at either three- or four-hour blocks.
So if you’re very, very severe, we’ll start at three hours, but if you’re yeah, kind of severe, we’ll do four. And we can change that if we have to, but you basically only feed on one breast, direct breastfeeding for three or four hours, and then you switch to the other breast for three or four hours. And then the full drainage part comes in because if your breasts become extremely engorged and painful during this process, you can do another full drainage once every 24 hours.
So the regular block feeding is when, if you’re in between those feeding times and you’re feeling full, you can take a little off the top. I’m not doing that. Don’t take a little off the top thing, because if you’re so severe that we’re doing block feeding that take a little off the top is just going to leave that milk in there, give it chances to separate and cause clogs and bullshit.
Right? I don’t like it. There’s a really good article that I read a couple of years ago that made me start doing this and I’ll link that in the show notes for you guys, but I’ve had nothing but good luck with this. And it also, I think helps people psychologically to know in between that they can do this once every 24 hours. I think it’s like cathartic too.
I mean, in the way that having a really deep cry is. Or a really good poop, right? You’re just releasing stuff. And I think that so many of us lactating parents carry physical stress in our shoulders and neck and chest, you know, and if you’re sitting at home right now, take this as an opportunity to take a deep belly breath, take your shoulders and roll them to the front and back and let them drop and just feel how that’s different from what you’ve been doing for the rest of this episode.
Yeah. And I want you then, if you’re having to pump for full drainage, to begin every pump with that. Take a deep belly breath, diaphragmatic breathing, right? You want that whole diaphragm to move. You want to sit up straight, you want to roll your shoulders and let them drop as low and as far back as they go and just like start that stress relief process and just give yourself permission to pump as much milk as you need to and let all that stress about this process go.
Yeah, because the messaging that you’re doing in between those full drainage pumps is mechanically you’re disrupting everything in there and you’re disrupting the prolactin surges. So the full drainage should not really affect and undo anything you’ve done. Those messages have been sent. Those cells that were compromised during the mechanical filling and overfilling were killed.
You know, they a pop toast, they exploded themselves. You know, they’re not going to regrow within 24 hours. You know, that has to be a clear, consistent message. So you’re not disturbing anything by doing a full drainage, if you need to. So once you’re tolerating the four-hour block, you can move to a five-hour block and then you can increase based on what the patient can tolerate.
And I’ve had patients who were very severe, make it all the way to an eight-hour block before they finally felt regulated. And that’s fine. Whatever, right. It’s not like, oh, well you’re extra broken. So you have to do eight hours. It’s like, no, this is where you started. If you have to do 12, it’s what you have to do it. So this is where you started.
This is where you need to be. And okay. And then, you know, the big question is, all right, well, when can I go back to feeling normal and get off the blocks? Try it and see what happens. So once you’re at that, maybe you’re, maybe it does take you eight-hour blocks before you feel regulated. At that point, feed on demand and switch back and forth like regular and see what happens.
And I think this is an easier transition while we are directly feeding baby versus resuming a normal pumping schedule because babies are not going to eat until they explode, but your pump will keep pumping even if the bottle overflows. So what I usually tell people who are pumping is quick reminder, pumping is supposed to simulate your breastfeeding.
So if your baby eats for 10 minutes, you pump for 10 minutes. If your baby eats for 20 minutes, you can pump for 20 minutes. If it’s more than that, I’m kinda like, Hmm. Usually what I say is if you’re pumping, you’re also bottle feeding. So look at the size bottles that you are feeding your baby and pump at least that much milk.
If you want to pump a little bit extra, because you’re still having some self-esteem issues and some anxiety give yourself an extra half ounce, you know, don’t pump four extra ounces. Yeah. So whether or not it’s time or volume of what you need. You can stop pumping based on what you feel comfortable with there.
And it might be both, right. It might be you put a timer on for 10 minutes, cover up those bottles, watch a funny TV show and then take a break and look at them. So let’s talk about if the block feeding doesn’t work. Oh yeah. So if it doesn’t work for you and you’re still leaking everywhere and feel the need to fully drain more than once every 24 hours, you might benefit from some medication or herbal remedies.
So you can take a dose of Benadryl at night. You can try taking 30 to 60 milligrams of Sudafed once or twice a day to try to get ahead of that crazy supply train. So if you’re like really struggling during this block feeding process and it’s taking like a week and you’re still like, oh my God, just some non-drowsy Sudafed. Get you some Sudafed and then you can also do some teas.
Did you want to go over some of the teas? Sure. So the two most people know are Sage and Peppermint. Again, throwing it out there Sage in your turkey and some mint gum, not going to do anything. If you really want to try and reduce your supply with this, you’re going to be making a lot of this tea. So I’m going to say source some loose-leaf tea, if you can.
Cause that’s typically fresher, more potent and you’ll have to drink less of it. And you’re going to get sick of Sage tea, like real quick. So should we shout up Mountain Rose Herbs? Yeah. I love Mountain Rose Herbs. And honestly, if we’re dealing with a real oversupply here, Pacific Botanicals is a great company, too.
They only sell bulk. You have to buy a pound. You might go through that guys. So just throwing it out there, but you know, get yourself a little pot that you can brew in. I love my little glass Ikea pot with the infuser in the middle and brew a whole pot of that. So we’re looking at like something that fits like 10 cups of tea, and you’re going to drink that over the whole day.
Yeah. Warning that Sage tea is not only like, does, does it have a drying effect on the body, but you’re going to feel cotton mouth after a cup of Sage tea. You absolutely can add a little honey and you should, because you know, I’m happy to like go to a Mediterranean restaurant and have a tiny cup of Sage tea, plain, but like not 10 cups of it.
Very bitter. Yeah. So add, add honey, add Stevia, whatever. You have Jasmine flowers, which is a good one as well. And that tastes a little bit better too. But again, when you’re making a really strong infusion, it’s going to get like kind of bitter in a floral way. Like you put too much like rose extract in your cookies or something like really fast.
And chasteberry is an interesting one here on your list. So that’s, Vitex. Chasteberry is an herb we typically use for hormone balancing and it’s actually a great one that tends to work in a really dynamic way in the body where we can actually use it for a number of different hormone issues, because it’s an herb that supports normal function.
It’s not going to push things out of whack too far. My only caveat with chasteberry is that long-term use has been linked with depression. So if you’re taking this for more than six months, I want you to take a break and assess what’s going on. If your oversupply issues are going on longer than six months, that you’ve been working on it, we’re doing something wrong.
Yeah. Well, typically we see people taking it that long if they’re trying to work with like fertility issues, menstrual issues, you know, things that take a while. But I do mention it because sometimes people get into and they kind of feel like they have to then rely on these supplements and they just keep taking them, even if they’re fine.
So, you know, if you, and especially like, if you have a capsule with these kinds of herbs in them, it’s very easy to just continue taking them. And while it’s not going to be as effective as a nice tea with fresh herbs just check how long you’ve been taking that and maybe take a break and see what goes on.
Yeah. That’s good advice because I definitely had that experience where I was taking the same supplement over and over and over and over. And I was like, why are all my poops so loose? And then I was like, oh, is that why? Let me take a break from that. And I had a solid poop today and I’m feeling great.
Okay. So I have to say this. And tell me how you feel about this. Okay. Because half of this is the ABM protocol and half of it is my opinion. I love it. Let’s do it. Okay. So with block feeding and or the addition of Benadryl, Sudafed and all the teas and blah, blah, blah. If you still have a persistent oversupply issue after all of these best efforts, you could possibly be one of these individuals that someone recommends a dopamine agonist for.
Specifically cabergoline which lowers the prolactin levels in the blood. So this recommendation is 0.25 to 0.5 milligrams every three to five days as needed. And if you choose to take this, as soon as your symptoms improve, you should stop because similar drugs have caused hypertension, stroke, seizures, and psychosis.
Oh, wow. So for me, I’m kind of like, not a big fan of this recommendation. I would much rather add another week of close monitoring and follow up. And I just am like, wondering if this recommendation is because it’s a quick fix? That, so that’s my gut is like, we need a clinical protocol that like a physician can follow and still do in 15-minute appointments.
Yes. And that’s exactly what leads me into my rant because all of this in this protocol points directly to, and states directly that you should be working closely with a physician who is knowledgeable in breastfeeding. Oh, do they know any of those? So, yeah. I mean, I’m sorry. I just, I love that. It’s so great.
And we all love a good unicorn hunt, but you know yeah. I mean, like super. Yeah. Thanks. Where am I supposed to find this individual that is accessible? Has all this information, like, does your insurance cover them too? Like maybe you found one, two cities over it’s a four-hour drive and you’re going to go and it turns out you pay out of pocket.
Yeah. So I’m going to call out ABM right now and ask them nicely to please acknowledge that IBCLCs have board certifications in a specialty that are the most qualified to deal with this issue. Yeah. And as an APRN, I can prescribe that psycho drug that’s going to give you a stroke by the way. You just gave me so much confidence in you.
I can do that and I can follow up with, I mean, I can do it, but I can also do other things like choose when I want to follow up with you based on how I structure my business, which is why I don’t take insurance by the way, because I don’t want someone telling me how to do my job. First of all and ethically speaking, I make you pay cash up front, and then I give you what you need.
I also don’t really feel like it is in people’s best interests to constantly have them come back and pay me every time, because then people are like, oh, why is she constantly bringing me back? Is, am I just a dollar sign? And it’s like, no, you’re not, but I can look at you right now and know how much this is going to cost, because I want to make sure that you’re getting the care that you deserve.
Right. And that’s how I ethically do it. So if you’re ever wondering why I don’t take insurance and why I charge cash and why I build it in it’s because trust me by the end of it, I’m making probably minimum wage. And really, if you’ve ever tried to bill an insurance company for a lactation visit, it doesn’t go well.
You will understand that. Right. So, and I think there was even just an aside, I think it was Blue Cross Blue Shield is starting some pilot program for paying doulas and lactation and stuff. I sent you that article. They were going to pay lactation consultants, like $12. Yeah. For a visit. Yeah. Thank you.
$12. So does that make me excited to see you again and like deal with you? Cannot keep the lights on. No. Cannot keep and you pay for the internet in the office. I mean, it’s just it’s anyway, it’s ridiculous. Sorry. I’m not even done. So, you know, although we continually see that they’re like propping up physicians, like yeah.
Let a physician deal with it. A physician can handle it. That need has never been met. And I am just coming from this place now almost overqualified for a lot of the stuff that I do. I am done apologizing for not having an MD behind my name. I am done. I’ve done enough education. I am qualified to do what I’m doing.
I do not have to explain my business to anyone. And MD does not mean that you are exempt from getting the IB CLC certification or a CLC. Yep. If you are an MD that calls yourself a lactation consultant without a certification, you are falsely advertising. Yeah. And let me tell you, I have done a couple of different CLC trainings, maybe because I forgot to do my CEU’s between expirations.
That’s fine. Never have I seen a physician there. Guys it’s a week. It’s a week of classes. Yeah, that’s it. And guess what? Getting your IB CLC when you’re already an MD, you basically just have to sit for an exam. You got to study. That’s like, you, you have all the other stuff they need. Yeah. And you know what?
You didn’t get it in med school. Yeah. And you’re lucky if you got it in residency and you’re lucky if where you got it, that person knew what they were talking about. Right. And, you know, we did an episode on that. I don’t even remember which one it was. Cause I’m so fired up right now, but we’ll push it when we interviewed the pediatrician.
Oh my goodness. Yeah, God. So yeah, it was like right in the beginning, but just like for a second, turn the tables. And imagine if I was going around telling everyone that I was an MD, they would freaking roast me over an open fire. You would lose your license. I would lose my license and they would shame me publicly and they would call me reckless.
They would call me a liar. You’d get put on those lists that they have for the state boards that bar you from ever getting licenses again? Right. But if you’re an MD, you can apparently just call yourself a lactation consultant. Yeah. I’ve seen it. It’s ridiculous. And I absolutely support MDs who have extra lactation experience advertising that.
But yeah, for sure. If I’m not allowed to be, you know, just, just to throw out any initials I want after my name. Right. Neither are you. Right. So you know, the point is if you’re comfortable with someone and you’re getting good care, awesome. But if you’re like, Hmm, this feels weird or I’m not getting what I need, it’s fine to go check their credentials and be like, oh wait, I thought you were a lactation consultant.
Apparently you’re not. Yeah. You can ask for a certification number too. You can check IBCLCs often online CLCs or CLS or stuff, it’s harder to check, but you can ask them for their certification number. Like we all have that. Yeah. Anyway, I’ve just been hanging onto that for a while because let it out.
Like I said, we’re going to take a deep breath, Heather. We’re gonna drop our shoulders and we’re just going to explode at the mic. Well when other people say I worked with an LC and it went wrong and I’m like, who was it? And they list someone who is not an LC. I am like, okay, you’re giving me a bad name. Just like if I was telling someone I was an MD and I was going around killing people, I’d be giving MDs a bad name.
Let’s just take a sip of tea, girl. Not that this is not righteous rage, but I think you need to take a breath and recenter because we’re trying to help people too. Don’t. It’s okay. Smash anyone’s car. Don’t rear-end anyone in the Dunkin Donuts drive-thru. I’m sure there’s stuff that pisses you off about your job and I’d love to hear it.
Just email us and let us know what’s been pissing you off today or repeatedly for years would be good too, but I would like to give someone a win. Okay. But I have a question first. Oh did ABM’s protocol anywhere mention cold compresses? Nope. They had mentioned oral birth control, which I did not include until this very moment.
I’m not about to do that. No, I don’t. I mean, I, that, I feel like our medical model loves to throw synthetic hormones out there to fix like any problem with our uterus or our boobs, but also in the same vein, why aren’t they recommending people just get pregnant? It’s an, and it just, it is not a view that takes into the, into account, like lifestyle choices, personal happiness, long-term fertility, future plans.
I mean like, like any of that. Yeah. And so, yes, that is an option. It is probably a particularly good option if you have used hormonal birth control before, and you have a particular one that you are really comfortable with. And that has worked out well for you before, but this might not be the time to just throw some combination pill at you when you’d never taken it before.
And like, I don’t know, you’re a postpartum parent and you’re at an increased risk for like a mood disorder. Just feels like a really good recipe for like depression and psychosis. But also if you have hypertension and you smoke and you’re 35, don’t take it. I, yeah. Yeah. Like I just also, don’t take this crazy dopamine agonist because if you already have hypertension and it could give you hypertension, it could throw you into a hypertensive crisis, not a candidate.
I just feel like there is more we can do. I also want to throw out there, there might be some really good space in here for not just using herbs internally, but topically. And a lot of the herbs we mentioned could be used in this way, but there are others that we could use topically that reduce swelling, inflammation.
I mean, there’s a lot. ABM did mention that there was no good research showing that cold cabbage leaves helped, but I think they do. But they feel nice and they feel nice. Except when they get warm and a little smelly, then you smell like sauerkraut, but I’m okay with that. But I just want to say though, that there are a lot of wonderful herbalists out there.
A lot of midwives, traditional midwives also have really extensive herbal training because it is within our scope of practice and why not acupuncture. Yeah. So I would definitely encourage you if you live in a community where you have someone with a really good reputation, you know, in a different medical modality to just see what they can do to help you. Way to bring it around.
Thank you. Cold compresses are great after feedings. Yes. After not before.
Have you ever been diapering your baby and just imagine all the diapers from that day alone being in the landfill? Doesn’t it make you feel a little bit guilty? Like actually every day. Yeah. And also, I just want to mention, I remember standing in the diaper aisle at the grocery store wondering which diaper I should switch to next for my child’s persistent diaper rash.
Absolutely. And you guys know that I am really passionate about environmentally friendly products? We have a solution for all of this. The company DYPER D-Y-P-E-R was started to solve three problems. First problem was running out of diapers because who hasn’t been there? So they’ve created a subscription model.
The second problem was not wanting to use harmful chemicals on your baby’s delicate skin. And the third problem was a desire to leave a better planet behind for babies everywhere. So they created eco-friendly diapers made out of bamboo fibers that are soft and absorbent. You don’t have to feel guilty about it because DYPER has carbon offset, the entire diapering journey from manufacturing to shipping.
You can also get a free diaper bag with your subscription through our promo link. What’s not to love? Get your DYPER subscription today and your free diaper bag by clicking the link in our show notes. Happy diapering.
Okay. All right. Let’s do an award. Okay. Wait, I’ve got one. I want to give our award this week to our friend, Michelle, who just had her second baby. Michelle crushed it. And she had so much going on prenatally where the providers were pushing her towards an induction and she held her ground so well and worked with them and encouraged them to work with her.
And kindly was like, I understand and hear you, but I’m not doing it. I’m coming in an active labor. They told her she was going to have a giant baby. Guess what? Eight pounds. And what? Six ounces. Totally, totally normal size came in in active labor. Had the baby, dealt with like three weeks of prodromal labor at home.
Yeah, that was. That was tough, but she crushed it. And also she’s a moderator in the Facebook group and she works so hard as a fire marshal, which is super cool. Oh yeah, and she has a dog that she works with. Oh I think her work dog and her baby share a birthday. Really? I thinks so, or it’s really, really close. We all love her fire-fighting dog.
She’s so cute. She’s like the, the woman in the highly masculine world and she just takes it in stride. So congratulations. We know that there are a lot of hard weeks ahead of you. In this newborn phase, we are here for you. This podcast is here for you. All these listeners are rooting for you to succeed.
Michelle, we’re going to give you the Girl on Fire Award because you are a girl, our little fire marshal. You’re crushing it. I love you so much. Can’t wait to kiss baby Clara some more. Yeah, just kidding. I haven’t kissed her yet. And don’t kiss babies on the face. No, we’ll make up for it when she used two.
Yeah. When she’s two, I can’t wait to kiss her chubby little neck. Okay guys. Well, thank you for tuning into another episode. Oh, wait, wait. Oh, I forgot. We have patrons to thank! Oh, okay. Hold the phone. Today I want to thank three new patrons, Alyssa Sydney and Maya. Thank you so much for joining our community on Patreon.
Your merch is in the mail and keep submitting questions and wins for us. And you can email those to MilkMinutePodcast@gmail.com. Yup. All right now, thank you all for tuning into this episode of The Milk Minute Podcast. If you’ve found value in what we produce for you today, please go to Patreon.com/MilkMinutePodcast and give us a small donation, even $1.
But if you don’t want to, you know, what’s free? Sharing our podcast with a friend.
