Transcript:
*We apologize for any typos, misspellings or incorrect grammar. Our transcript is auto-generated by software that’s trying its best, just like all of us.*
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Milk Minute Podcast. This week Heather and I are back to talk about how to know when it’s time to stop. Or if you should stop, do you even need a good reason? What is a good reason? I think honestly, Heather, like maybe, maybe like a quarter of the consults I do are people being like, should I stop breastfeeding?
Can I stop breastfeeding? Some variation of the rules? Yeah. Can you tell me the rules? Like, is there, is there an algorithm that like A plus B equals I should stop? And yeah, so, and it, and it seems to follow a pattern. And so I just recently had a two week run where I had a lot of people in a row that were exactly the same and it was very strange.
Maybe it’s not strange, but they followed the same pattern of thought process of questioning and resolution actually. So I was like, you know what? Let’s talk about that. I think it’s also good to like, even, even if you’re listening to this episode and you’re like, I’m not at that place where I’m thinking about that.
Or, you know, at the end you decide to continue breastfeeding. I think it’s just good to normalize the conversation around this and that it’s okay to have those questions, to want to stop, to feel confused, whatever. Yeah, and also I wanted people to know that This is a conversation lactation consultants can have because I think a lot of people Assume that I’m gonna be like I want you to breastfeed till your kids in high school, you know They just like there I’ve had several patients that are afraid to disappoint me.
Yeah And so I wanted to address some of that in this episode because I mean this kind of decision may seem simple to folks looking in from the outside, but it actually comes with a bunch of really tangled up emotions that can be super hard to sort out. And so this episode is not meant to talk you into continuing to breastfeed, but to help you decide if now is the time to stop, if it’s the right decision for you.
And I just wanted everyone to know that above all else, we believe that the Best way to have a healthy baby is to have a happy and healthy parent, independent of feeding choices. Yeah. And I do want to also say that while Heather and I, you know, have this philosophy, I have to admit that a lot of lactation professionals do not.
And a lot of them are very, Pro lactation to the point of, like, possibly putting the mother in harm’s way, you know? And I do have to acknowledge that because, I mean, you know, Heather, we’ve had clients come in and they’re like, You’re nothing like my last lactation, you know, consult. And we’re like, yeah, and actually, every professional you meet with should have this kind of conversation with you and should be open to whatever you want to do.
And I do want to acknowledge that that can be really difficult to find, just like finding any healthcare provider that is supportive in that way of like just meeting your goals and meeting you where you’re at, it is a challenge. For sure. And we’re going to get into all of that, but we very excitedly have some patrons to thank.
Do you want to give them a shout out? Yeah, I do. Thank you so much to Ashley Havercamp and Elizabeth Bartlett. I feel so blessed that like every single week, you know, I look there to see like, oh, do we have new patrons? And like, yes. Yes, we do. It’s amazing. For those of you that are asking for pictures of my bump, I am, like, literally exclusively putting pictures of my bump weekly on Patreon.
Yeah. So yeah, it’s just, it’s been kind of interesting as people get to know me through the podcast. I am becoming a little bit more private, you know, so I feel a little bit more weird about just, like, putting things on the Facebook. I mean, me too, though, because… Like before we started this and also it like first, I don’t know, 50 episodes and we were like, nobody’s still, it was just kind of like, whatever, you know, no, one’s going to look at my account.
No one’s going to message me. No, it’s gonna like do something creepy. That’s not exactly the case now though. And it, I, it’s definitely made me rethink a lot of like what we share our families and our kids and us. And I think like we have rightfully evolved some of that too. Yeah, so that’s where it’s at.
It’s on Patreon. And also, I am on vacation right now. So if, all of the lawn people just showed up to like do all the lawns in the neighborhood. Of course they did! They were like, I just have this intuition that somebody really needs quiet right now. Yeah, so if you hear any of that, or you hear like any of the seven children that are here come in looking for their iPad or something, I apologize.
But Because I’m on vacation, and out and about, I was able to meet a special breastfeeder at the Emerald Isle Aquarium. And I saw her, I saw her breastfeeding her little baby, and I was like, Hey, just wanted to tell you, you’re doing a great job. And she’s like, Oh my gosh, thanks so much. And she said I could give her a shout out.
So Annetta Lesner from Pennsylvania, who I met at the aquarium at Emerald Isle, you’re getting a shout out. I just wanted to give you some major props for breastfeeding your baby among the chaos of overheated and under slept children that were everywhere. And you’re just doing a bang up job. She also mentioned that she had a midwife delivery that was nice for her and that she did have to work with a lactation consultant to overcome some early latch issues.
And now they’re doing wonderfully. So breastfeeding at the aquarium. Like yeah. Yeah, there was also, I don’t know this woman’s name, but there was a mom who strolled by with her baby in the stroller and I peeked in and I was like, oh, holy shit. And she goes, yeah, I’m two days postpartum. And I was like, oh my god.
Go home! She is, I’m telling everyone. And I was like, as you should. And she goes, my family, my extended family planned this vacation, not knowing my due date. And I was like well, you win, so. Yeah. Well, yeah. So shout out to those two hustlers that, that were winning. They’re out there to win some awards today.
But let’s take a minute to thank one of our sponsors. And when we come back, Maureen, I have a pretty hard question for you actually about nonnutritive sucking and keeping breastfeeding in play with a NICU baby. Okay, I’m nervous.
Have you guys ever been listening to our show and thought to yourself, man, I really want to work one on one with Maureen? I do every day that I sit here podcasting across from you. Well, lucky for you and everybody at home, I offer both in person and virtual support through my business. And in my business, Highland Birth Support, I’m dedicated to mentoring you guys through your childbearing year.
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Thank you and I just feel really happy to serve everybody and I’m so happy I can expand my services virtually as well. Yeah, telehealth for lactation has been really important through the pandemic and I think we just about got it perfected at this point. So if you guys want to work with me head over to HighlandBirthSupport.
com and check out what I can offer you. That’s h i g h l a n d birthsupport. com. Welcome back everybody. Heather, I’m very interested to hear this question and I’m nervous I won’t have the right answer. I hope you do. Well, I don’t know that there is a right answer for this. And I actually got this email this morning on our Milk Minute account, and I didn’t even have time to share it with you yet, but I wanted to kind of hash it out with you live and got permission from Casey Fitzsimmons.
Casey says, hi. Hi. I’ve been searching the webs high and low for a nipple shield with no holes, and I need to know if it exists. I know this seems odd but let me tell you why. Our second daughter was born at 37 weeks after 6 days in our local hospital NICU. She was still needing supplemental oxygen, had a cough, and was aspirating with feeds, even with the NG tube occasionally.
We were transferred about an hour and a half from home, found out she had a tracheoesophageal fistula. Long story short, after surgery and a long recovery, we are seven weeks in and still in the NICU. She is still unable to PO feed as she still has some paresis of her vocal cords and is unable to protect her airway.
Even with pumping as dry as possible before putting her to the breast, she still has difficulty with the little milk she does get. Enteral feeding will be a part of our lives. for a while, but I wanted to keep her interested in breastfeeding or feeding in general. Please help. How do I breastfeed without actually letting my baby have any milk?
That’s a really hard one. Shoot. And, you know, because we, we do say this all the time and it’s true. You’re never really going to be dry nursing if you’re still lactating in general, because your body is going to be making just like, Little tiny drips and drops of milk now and then. Mm hmm. Yeah, and there is a nipple shield with no holes.
It’s called a pacifier. And I don’t mean that in like a snarky way at all. I mean, like, what if we took your breast milk on your finger and just swiped it around the inside of her gums and then put the pacifier in? Because we want more than anything, and I’m not a speech language pathologist or an OT, but I, from what…
We got from our interview with the ones that work in the NICU, which we’ll link in the show notes. Using the pacifier for suck training is really important just to keep the sucking in play. So that’s one of the biggest things with enteral feeding is keeping that reflex active. So using a pacifier, putting your breast milk on her mucus membranes and doing tons and tons of skin to skin, because I’m also thinking that the more you try to dry pump, the more milk you’re making.
And so if this is going to be, weeks of a process, which it probably is, but I, I mean, the typically, I mean, depending on the severity, the resolution of this is pretty good. You know, like we have surgery, we keep the OT and PT up and eventually baby is able to tolerate PO feeds. And you know, I’m I think as long as we can keep the sucking in play and have baby able to tolerate that position So doing skin to skin in breastfeeding position with the pacifier and the milk in her mucous membranes, that would probably be the best least stressful or what do you think about doing like Finger feeding, Maureen, like with super small amounts.
I mean, as far as that goes, I would definitely talk to your NICU team and be like, Hey, okay, is like one drop too much? It’s like, is two drops too much? You know, you might have to do some experimentation there to see what that threshold is for baby, because you can’t. Obviously control that when you’re at the breast but you could certainly do that if you were finger feeding or, you know, just putting a little bit of milk in baby’s, like, buccal space.
And I don’t know, I’m wondering, like, yeah, is there a nipple shift? No. So we’re like, or like, what if we, you know, because I know the pacifiers they usually use in the NICU which are great for soothing babies, but they’re not really great for, like, maintaining a proper breastfeeding latch. You know, but I wonder if something like the Nini would be too difficult for a baby in the NICU Yeah.
Yeah. The, I think the goal for me would be to use the NiniCo. Yeah. So you know, using the Soothee, that hard nipple to start with and then moving to the NiniCo even for five minutes a day. Right. Or even only during those. breastfeeding times. The Ninico is just really cool because the tip of it is more firm but the base of it is very squishy.
So if they try to overcompensate with their lips they collapse the base and it won’t work. So they literally have to trough their tongue and use their tongue instead of their lips which is suck training essentially. Yeah and Ninico When I sometimes if, if a client has one, I’ll put my finger inside of it to assess suck.
’cause I can actually feel like what the tongue is doing and where the gums are. And it’s kind of cool. And you can also then use your finger to kind of stabilize it a little bit for baby while you’re teaching them how to suck. And also, my question would be when you’re talking to your providers, do we care?
As much if baby aspirates a tiny bit of breast milk compared to formula. Sometimes that’s not a big deal and sometimes it is just. You know, case by case for this kind of situation and you know, I mean, I mean, that’s this whole thing, right? Is we don’t have one correct answer. This is gonna take a lot of experimentation.
Probably most people in this situation don’t breastfeed and that’s fine. And if you want to though, like we don’t have a really solid plan already made, you know what I mean? Like, we kind of have to figure it out. Yeah, and I never say never. I never say never. And it really totally depends on the baby a lot, but I’m just thinking of kiddos that have had to have like stomas in their GI tract, you know, so like they literally have to split the small intestines.
And what happens is sometimes when they split that over a long period of time, the, the piece on the downstream ends up atrophying and shriveling because it doesn’t get any, any action. It doesn’t get any food. So I worked with this doctor who was doing refeeding. So he’d pull some food out of one and then insert it into the other one just to keep it active.
So I’m almost wondering, is there a risk to not putting a small amount of breast milk down? I guess that’s a really good conversation then to have with, you know, the, the doctor that is sort of leading care here, like. What, you know, despite the risk of aspiration, what are the benefits of doing this? And then we understand what the risks of aspiration are.
What are other risks of doing it? And I’m really like it, you might change your decision on this day by day. Right. Because the situation is going to be constantly evolving with like new information and baby growing and, you know, having different procedures done and all of that. Casey, I hope that’s helpful.
And I hope that makes you feel good to know that it is complicated in a way because it’s not like there’s one straightforward answer that you’ve been missing this whole time. Yeah, absolutely. This is a hard situation. The fact that you are where you are is incredible. And I mean, Heather and I both just want to encourage you to keep going and like don’t beat yourself up if Breastfeeding isn’t gonna happen for a little bit.
Yeah, and also Never say never because I’ve had people that have exclusively pumped for six months and then one day They just latch their baby and it’s and it’s fine. So I am never one who’s gonna be like it. It’s never gonna happen We’ll see. All right. Are you ready to get into this episode? Yeah. Okay.
I am gosh I’m, I’m kind of, okay. I’m a little bit nervous to get into it because I am in a serious debate with myself over whether or not I should continue breastfeeding Lyra, but I actually don’t know if I like want to know the answer yet, you know,
so let’s do it. Yeah, maybe you’ll have some more clarity by the end of the episode. Yeah, maybe I will. I don’t know. I just kind of wanted to lead people through some like thought processes today to see if there were some questions they hadn’t asked themselves yet regarding this decision. But first I did want to clear out the elephant in the room before we even get started.
It is no one’s business but your own how you feed your baby, period. Like, not our decision, not your partner’s decision, not your family’s decision. How you feed your baby is not a reflection of you as a mother. How long you choose to breastfeed your baby is not a reflection of you as a parent. And unless the person who is so opinionated in your life about breastfeeding is planning to show up at 2 o’clock in the morning to help you feed your baby every night, they really don’t get a say.
Absolutely. Okay, so now that you know where I stand on that, I also wanted to give you a quick list that I feel like we should put into an Instagram post about appropriate responses to the question, Are you breastfeeding your baby? Are these a well, I was really actually trying not to be snarky because I wanted to give people some actionable stuff that everyone felt comfortable using.
But feel free to add some. Okay. Okay. So first of all, are you breastfeeding your baby? Yeah, or no. Simple. Yeah, no is a complete sentence, as I remind pretty much everybody in my life all the time. Right, exactly. So, like, you could just say no and literally walk away. Just don’t offer any explanation.
Or you could say something along the lines of, We did. Yeah. And that’s it. Or, it wasn’t for us. Also a great response. Or, you could just say, baby’s a great eater. Which is a non-answer. Just leave him wondering. I love it. Or baby’s super healthy. So we’re really excited about that. Which is also kind of like a ninja non answer.
I also really like, I like, it’s complicated. Like, like your Facebook relationship status. Yeah, like it’s complicated and then, you know, that should immediately put the other person, you know, in place and be like, oh, right, it is complicated and it’s none of my effing business. yeah. Or you could just look at them and be like, well, not currently.
So not at this moment, you know, like I’m just imagining you’re at a party and you’re eating appetizers around a table and someone’s like, are you breastfeeding your baby? And you’re like, well currently, no, I’m feeding myself right now. You know or you could feel free to explain your super long answer if it’s someone you actually want to explain it to because.
Of course, it’s going to be a journey or the last one I wanted to say is if it’s a health care provider that is asking you that in that way, you can actually say, You know, that question honestly makes me feel pretty bad. And it might be better if you said something like, how are you choosing to feed your baby?
Which might be a little less triggering for people that have really tried hard to breastfeed, who just could not for whatever reason. Yeah, I actually just have a client, you know, we’re like halfway through her pregnancy. And the topic of feeding your baby just came up because of course I’d seen her history and, you know, and I was like, Hey, I think we should talk about this now.
Like what, what choice you’re going to make for this baby. And, you know, we can talk about what’s happened in the past if you want. And I mean, it was like automatic tears and, you know, I, I, I, she had a really traumatic past with breastfeeding and, i, I could pretty easily tell that from her history, you know and, and I’m really glad we talked about it at 20 weeks instead of 40, you know, because I would love to support her if that’s not her choice this time.
But I also don’t want to be that person who’s like two days before she has a baby, like, all right, let’s talk about breastfeeding because that’s, that doesn’t work. Absolutely. And I knew a girl one time who, she’s awesome lady, and she put a sign on her door when she went in to have her baby that said, please don’t ask me about breastfeeding.
I’ve made my choice. And it’s like, great, fine, because it is super annoying when every single person who refuses to read the chart before they come in goes, Oh my gosh, are you breastfeeding your baby? Or how long did you breastfeed? Or like, she should not have to explain that every single time. Like if you cannot, if you cannot read the chart, you know, like that’s on you.
That’s your bad and the patient should not have to go through this 25 times during their two day hospital stay and that’s fair. Okay, so let’s move into How do you know if stopping is the right choice for you? And I wanted to go over a few examples that I’ve noticed in my patients that are like telltale signs for me Do you want to start with number one?
Well, I was gonna say do you want to read the list and then at the end I can tell you like how many I said Yes to Okay Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Okay. That’s really funny. Okay. So number one, I put you’re Googling how to know if I should stop breastfeeding or not.
You know, it’s kind of like when you’re in a bad marriage and you’re Googling, should I get divorced? Honey. Honey, you’re already googling that. You know, here’s your sign. And then second I put you have an overwhelming sense of dread every time you think breastfeeding is drawing near. You know, like your baby is passed out asleep, but you’re watching the clock knowing it’s going to be happening soon and you’re just like filling up to your eyeballs with dread that it’s about to happen.
Yeah. And I feel that so deeply with my patients because they explain it in that way. Like, I constantly feel like it’s almost time to breastfeed. And it, it, like, makes my whole body fill with dread. And I’m like, ooh, that sounds very uncomfortable. And I want you to know, not everybody has that feeling. So it might not mean that you need to stop breastfeeding, but I can tell you we need to talk about it.
Number three, I put that you’re negotiating with yourself on ways you can continue breastfeeding without breastfeeding. And an example, an example of this would be patients that come to me and they say, maybe I’ll try exclusively pumping for a while. Oh yeah, I’ve heard that one where they’re like, maybe just a week, maybe.
Huh. Yeah, maybe I just need a week to like get my mind right and I’ll just, I’ll exclusively pump to keep it going and we’ll just see what happens. And I’m like, well, I can tell you what’s gonna happen. You know? I have one possible scenario. It’s pretty likely. Which is fine, but let’s talk about it.
Right, like the constant negotiating with yourself. You’re like, well, you know, what if I did some version of this that wasn’t this? Right, that’s always so hard. Mm hmm. And then, number four, I put that you’re giving baby a bottle of formula to see how it feels, even though you have plenty of milk supply. I have seen this one numerous times, and this one always, it’s like maybe one of the biggest ones for me.
Where, you know, they’re kind of like, I want baby’s gut to get used to it, be, be, just in case I do stop. You know? Or they, they literally say things like, I want my baby to have formula because I feel better after they have formula. Like they’re going to sleep longer, or it’s going to be a longer time before I breastfeed again.
Yeah, I, hearing that is, I’m always like, okay, we need to like, Really, you’re a conversation now around that feeling. Yeah. And then the another one, number five, I put, you’re putting timelines on yourself to make you feel better about inevitably discontinuing breastfeeding. So like arbitrary timelines, like I’m going to breastfeed for a month and if it’s not better by a month, then I’m going to stop.
But at least I will have a month. Like, like you have some kind of chip that you’re going to play with friends and family that give you shit, you know? Now this is a little bit different than if you’re working with a provider because I have given people timelines before. Sure, sure. And that makes sense.
No, but this is like the mental game when it’s like 2am and you’re like, okay. One more month. If it’s not better by, you know August 30th, then we’re done. Mm hmm. Yeah. Or like you have a vacation coming up in, in three months and you’re like, if I can just breastfeed until I get to this vacation and you’re like, what, why?
You know? Right. Right. Or, or like, okay when school starts again or, you know, whatever it is, the big things in your life. Right. Exactly. So that’s interesting. So it’s a little different than if you’re making a timeline with your provider, because your provider is objectively looking at things that are in your way.
And if I can see someone and say, this obstacle is most likely going to be removed in the next three weeks, you know, your baby is going to neurologically develop. This won’t be a thing in three weeks’ time. Like, are you willing to give it three weeks? Then that’s, that’s not arbitrary. That is, that is measurable.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I also don’t want you to have any regrets, you know, so I’m gonna get you to the point where we can be done and not feel bad, period. But anyway, let me move on here. Are you keeping track of your score? I am, yeah. Okay number six, I put that you’re only contacting your friends who have formula fed their babies to kvetch about new parenting woes or receive confirmation that their formula fed babies are perfectly healthy.
Okay, this is a big one too. So if you find yourself calling certain friends and, you know, constantly checking in, like, how many colds did your baby have? Your baby was a formula set, right? What percentile are they on? You know, how was your two month checkup? Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, and there’s really, like, no easy way to…
to be sneaky about that, right? Which you, if you’re feeling sneaky about like the questions you’re asking your friends trying to get this information, that’s also probably a sign. And, and I feel like the opposite happens when you’re like trying to convince yourself to like breastfeed like longer, you know, this is a lot of the time when people call me to catch up when their baby’s like about a year old and they’re like, How is, oh yeah, how’s breastfeeding your two year old?
And I’m like are you wanting to wean? You’re like, just so you know, it doesn’t matter what I do. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, this one cracks me up a little bit. Okay, number seven. You’re trying really hard to get your baby on a schedule so you can tolerate the feedings better. Ugh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. This one is painful to watch.
This one is really hard because in the beginning when your baby has no schedule, I’m seeing parents create these really complicated feeding plans for themselves, trying to hack the system to make the breastfeeding more predictable. And it really, when, when you try to hack the system, it actually makes it more complicated.
And then we have to untangle that. And then they, and then it’s just like, I knew I was bad at this. And, you know, it turns into this self-fulfilling prophecy. So if you’re trying to hack this, the system to get a schedule for your breastfed baby, that’s also a sign that maybe this is not for you. Do you see that with your patients, by the way?
Yeah, yeah, I definitely do. I mean, and I also see this a lot with Patients where for, it’s usually for me, it’s usually first time parents and it is often the demographic of people over 30 with a master’s or a PhD. , you know, not talking about you or anything, , I feel seen , no, but really, like there’s, there’s a very specific demographic of people that.
You know, I see coming in prenatally and I’m like, Mm hmm, postpartum control is going to be a thing that we’re struggling with. Got it. Got it. Yes. 100%. Yeah. And that is, that was me to a point. Now that I know what I know, I’m like, I’m going to lean into the chaos because I’m going to get out of this easier.
And it’s not your first. You know, you’re like, you know, what’s going on, right? A hundred percent. All right. Let me see here. Number eight. I see people switch to a portable pump very early in the breastfeeding game to feel more independent, which ends up causing issues like plug ducks or pain, which then makes them feel like You know, inevitably, of course this happened, like I knew this wasn’t for me, you know, no, that is the best description because that’s the mindset people come in with.
They’re like, I knew it wasn’t going to work. This is showing me that my body hates it. And it’s, it’s like, I’m broken. It doesn’t work with me. Mm hmm. And now I have a reason. Yeah. Boo, you never needed a reason. Right, exactly. I always, it’s such a hard conversation to have because I’m like, yes, that is a great reason to stop.
Also, a great reason to stop would have just been, I don’t like this. Right, right. Yeah, we don’t have to create a medical emergency for ourselves to be done. And, and that’s completely fine. So nine is you’re adding up how much money you’ve spent on breastfeeding supplies compared to pricing formula. So if you’re, if you’re doing this numbers game of like, well, carry the two divided by blah, blah, blah.
You know I think I’ll break even if I can breastfeed for three months. And I feel like this is like the thing we do in the middle of the night on your phone calculator And you like redo it 17 times because you’re so tired And you’re like, wait, is that right? Oh gosh, wait Mm hmm. Yeah, and then number 10.
I just wanted to say you’re just miserable all the time You cry all the time and with these folks I typically ask them to spend a week rating their day objectively from 1 to 10. 1 being the best, 10 being the absolute worst, hardest day ever as it relates to feeding. And rate your day, literally write it on the calendar so your partner can see it.
Because sometimes our partners are part of the problem. And then at the end of the week, review the calendar and be like so 7 days this week, I was somewhere between a 7 and a 10. Honey, that’s not good. Okay. I’ve actually had some folks use those bullet journals, which are fun, right? Where you can like color in the little square or the circle to be like the color that correlates with how your day was.
And I’ve had, you know, I’ve said like, okay, let’s use like three colors. And like, this color is a good day and this one is okay. And this one’s a bad day. And then at the end of your month or whatever, we’re going to look at that little page you made and see how dark it is. Right. I mean, because the thing is we experience our emotions in real time.
So every day is the worst or best day we’ve ever had. And we forget about our feelings the day before or seven days ago, for sure. I mean, and we do that when we’re well rested, that’s just. the human being nature, you know, we’re in the, in our moment, we’re currently in our emotion. So it really helps to kind of look back and be like, no, this is how I felt.
I’m not fooling myself. I really have hated every second of this, or maybe today was just a bad day. And the rest of it really wasn’t that. bad and I should give it another week. You know, sometimes it’s just buying yourself a little bit more time to decide is really important. Yeah, and I think that actually helps contextualize the whole saying of like, don’t quit on your worst day.
But if you look and you’re like, Every day is my worst day. I don’t have a not worst day. Like, yeah, then, then we should be quitting on our worst day. Yeah, and we’re laughing because we get it. Otherwise, we would cry. Yeah, we would cry. Yeah, so what’d you say yes to? So yes, have I googled about when to wean my toddler, which, not that I haven’t weaned a child before, but obviously I’m still googling it when she wakes me up in the middle of the night.
And I also said yes to, like, giving timelines.
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. That makes no sense. Well, and also, your kids are so different. So even though you’re not a first time parent, your kids are so remarkably different. And Lyra is so independent and has different needs and wants and desires. So it’s kind of like negotiating. What you want versus, what does she really want?
Absolutely. And like, at this age with Griffin, I was like, there is no weaning in sight. Like, he is a very enthusiastic breastfeeder. And with her, some days I’m like, Oh, she didn’t breastfeed? Mm hmm. Yeah. And that’s, I think that’s fine, right? Yeah, we are going to link our episodes to weaning in the show notes of this in case you are more of In Maureen’s timeline than like early on in your breastfeeding journey We did several episodes on weaning so you can take a little deep dive there if you like Yeah, I hope they I hope they help you think about it.
I feel like now I’ve thought too much about it And I still don’t have an answer, but you know what? I think we need to Take a quick break to thank our sponsors. And when we get back we’re going to talk about logical steps to take before you stop breastfeeding.
Let’s take a quick break to thank our sponsor, Aeroflow. Aeroflow is your one stop shop to get the most popular breast pumps and accessories through your insurance. Yeah, so don’t let your insurance go to waste. Why don’t you let Aeroflow do all the dirty work for you? You never have to call your insurance when you use Aeroflow.
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Thanks, Aeroflow. Thank you so much. Go ahead and check out the link to Aeroflow in our show notes and order your pump through them.
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Okay. Welcome back everybody. True to Heather fashion in this very organized episode we have numbered steps, so I’m going to, I’m going to take us through step one. Okay, I love you dearly. Okay, step one, we are really going to think about if breastfeeding is the actual problem or if there’s a different problem associated with it that can be solved without stopping.
So, examples would be pain. Exhaustion, feeling over touched, anxiety, postpartum depression, or like grieving the loss of your former life, you know? Yeah, that’s real, okay? And I don’t think we talk about that enough, that could probably be its own episode. It’s super real. But it is like, kind of painful. I, okay, let’s write, I’m gonna write that down, Heather.
Yeah, please write that down. It is kind of painful to watch someone go through this because I went through it and it was painful. And I see them trying to clutch onto the last vestiges of what their life was like before parenthood. Like they’re going to parties at two weeks postpartum and they’re like, no, no, no, I’m having so much fun.
This is great. I’m having a great time. Look how normal I am. And you’re like, everyone’s looking at you like, are you going to cry? Like, are you sure you’re okay? Yeah. It’s just like you. You are different. You’re cellularly different, neurologically different, and you’re, you have lost things. You’ve lost the ability to nap whenever you want to nap.
You’ve lost maybe some clothing that you really, really wanted to. Continue wearing. You know, you’ve lost a relationship with your partner. Yeah. I think one of the hardest things for me was I basically lost all spontaneity, which I felt like I worked really hard to be like comfortable with before having kids.
And then I was like, Oh no, now I don’t do it at all. And that was the thing I was like very proud of, like working into my life. Yeah. Grieving the loss of your, of your previous life is big. And as far as the other things, like the pain, okay, pain should be temporary. So if you are in pain, we need to work with a professional and stop being in pain, you know, before you make a decision about breastfeeding.
Exhaustion, communicate with your family. How do I get a nap? you know, like, how can I get a REM cycle every day? Or talk to your lactation consultant and be like, Hey, you know, this, like every hour on the hour overnight feeding, I I’m dying. Like, you’re going to have to build something in for me. We can absolutely do that.
And then the over touch stuff again, that’s like, okay, how do we help you adjust as a new parent and build in some more you time? without being touched. And then of course with anxiety and postpartum depression, there’s meds, you know, like we need to do a screening. We need to see if you need some medication support and solve that before you make any decisions about feeding your baby.
Cause you want to be making these decisions from a solid place from like a really mentally stable place. Right. For sure. Yeah, so the next step we’ve got number two. We would like to determine what exactly it is that you are hoping breastfeeding will do for you, right? Are you doing it because you want a special bond with baby?
Is it for the health benefits for you and your baby? Are you only doing it to make somebody else happy? Like, is it pressure from your partner, your family, your provider, et cetera? Or, or are you like a very, you know, Type A competitive person and you just don’t like feeling like you can’t do something?
You want to do everything correctly and just how it should be. I see this one a lot with… Parents who are very physical, so parents who are like CrossFit people. Parents who have done Tough Mudders, who were like Olympian rowers. you know, in college and you’re just like, girl, yeah, this is different.
That was you against a boat. Okay. This is you against a tiny human. Okay. This isn’t like you can, you can’t muscle your baby into feeding a certain way. You can try, but like, this is going to be your biggest challenge with parenting in general is like how to give up the fight. And, and work with it rather than against it.
You know, these people that are like, I’m just going to push through. I don’t care if my nipples are bleeding and falling off. This is my goal. I’m pushing through. And I’m like, okay, that’s good. I like your enthusiasm, but maybe we should really look at, look at why. Right. What, what if we didn’t, what would that look like?
Yeah. Let’s just, for the sake of talking about it, figure out what the other side would look like. So number three would be figure out what you think discontinuing breastfeeding will give you. What does that green grass look like on the other side? Does it look like more sleep? Does it look like more ease in your daily life?
Does it look like a better social life? for you. And that might actually give you some clarity on what you’re missing. Because that age old question of what do you need? What can I do for you? And you’re like, I don’t know. I don’t know what anyone can do for me. Well, ask yourself what you think discontinuing breastfeeding will do for you.
And that might give you the answer of what you’re supposed to be asking people for. Yeah. I, I think, I think those are really great. Like baseline questions to go through, you know, by yourself with your partner, with your healthcare provider. And just because then you can look at things like, you know, okay, is there something, maybe there’s something completely outside of breastfeeding that I’ve actually just been attaching to that, that we can fix.
You know, separately, or maybe it really is that, and that really would solve all of my problems. That is so good to know. Yeah, that is good to know. Now I know what to ask for. And this is especially first time parent stuff, too, because you never know what to ask for. You know, I don’t know what will make me feel better because I don’t know me.
That’s hard, and it’s hard to admit that. Now, like, with my third baby, people are like, what can I do for you? I’m like, I need you to make me food that is not lasagna, and I need you to bring that over by 6pm, because if my children aren’t fed by 6. 30, they turn into monsters. And so that’s, like, very specific, where people are like, oh, shit, like, okay.
I’m like, Don’t ask me how you can help me unless you’re prepared for a very targeted answer. Yeah, my answer is usually like, actually, can you watch my kids Friday from 12 to 6? And they’re like, oh, like, yeah, I already know the time that I don’t have childcare that I need for next week. Thank you. Yeah, and it’s okay to ask and it’s Also okay for that person to be like, Oh shoot, I can’t do 12 to 6 Friday.
Then you can be like, yeah, that’s okay. I mean, I’m also need help the next day or like I’m no worse off than I was before I asked. And I’m not a less of a person for asking and no one died. So, yay. There are definitely two schools of people, though, for this. There are folks that ask directly for things, and there are folks that essentially never feel comfortable asking for something in their entire life.
Mm hmm. And, and there’s like a pretty, like, Strict line between those people. I don’t know. Like I definitely was raised in the school of thought of like, if you don’t ask, you will never know. And the worst that somebody can say is no. And you should ask even if it’s rude. And it took me a long time to realize not everybody felt that way.
Mm hmm. Yeah. Not, yeah. And for me, it was like, don’t bother anyone. You know? Yeah. And I don’t even know if I was like, raised that way. I think I just am that way, naturally. Yeah. And so I’ve had to learn. I think there’s something about your psyche, too, that is just more comfortable with it, right? Yeah, it’s just easier for me to like not get what I need and be okay with it than for someone else to be impositioned and I’ve learned though that that doesn’t really serve me or them because there are people that love me that want to help me and by you.
Robbing them of the opportunity of helping me. I’m actually keeping them further from me. And as I get older, I want closeness. You know, I don’t want to be alone. I don’t want to be isolated with my children. I want a village. So I feel like it’s a muscle that you should work on flexing. So any who, I hope these were helpful.
I feel like we can probably turn these into some Instagram posts that are more easily Chew Chewable? What am I trying to say? Digestible? I think that was the one you wanted. I want you to chew. Bite size. I want you to chew on my Instagram. And share it and tag a friend. But. Anyway, I do watch all of my patients go through these steps and then I ask the patient if they would like me to give them permission to quit.
And when I ask them this question, they typically all begin crying and then I say, you know, insert whatever name, Sally, I would like you to stop breastfeeding because I don’t think it’s serving you in a healthy way. And then they kind of stare at me and blink for a while and I can kind of start to see the relief come over them.
And then I ask the question, would you like to dry up your milk cold turkey? Or would you like to work towards a more gradual weaning plan? And I swear to God, almost 100% of the time they choose cold turkey. And then they call me a week later and they are completely different. Like the light is back in their eyes.
They’re no longer tearful. They seem overall much more confident as parents because no one died. Like they made the decision. Like parenting. is just making decisions over and over again, which is why it’s so hard. And if you’re a new parent, it’s a lot of pressure to make decisions for tiny people. But you get used to it, you know?
That, again, is like a muscle that has to be worked out. It is, it is, but it’s definitely something where if you were a person who suffered with like, decision paralysis before having a child, It does not just automatically go away. Yeah, I mean, and so I’m happy to be the person that can, like, help you make that first big decision, but I always want people to know that it’s not going to be the last decision that they have to make as far as parenting and child rearing, and they all feel big.
Right? Like, they just, they all feel huge. What school should they go to? You know, what friends should they hang out with? How do I feel about gluten? You know, like, literally, it just never stops. And you just hope that you’re making the best decision you can at the time. And chances are pretty good you are.
Because you’re making it out of love. Like, you want this because you want your family to feel whole and happy and loved. And that’s what matters. You know, it’s not malicious, so I just want to give you a big hug, virtually, let you know that it’s okay you have permission to quit, if you would like to quit, it’s not even really quitting, you’re just making a different decision.
Okay? Sounds good to me. I know you wouldn’t argue. Awesome. Well, I think we should take another really quick break, and then come back with awards, you know, end on a high note, read a review, all that jazz.
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All right. Welcome back everybody. I have a really fun award to give today. Okay. Let’s hear it. Okay. I’d let you read it, but I want to read it. Cause I know. Okay. So this is for Kristyn, Kristyn G. And speaking of making big decisions, you know, the whole podcast is about decision making. I wanted to give her an award because she is a parent who is brave enough to ask her boss for a part time position, knowing that They never give out part time positions.
And she was not enjoying having her baby in daycare at all. And she was super torn about transitioning back to work. And she didn’t even really like her job that she was currently in, like the, the job responsibilities that came with it. So when she’s like at her lactation appointment with me, she’s just like sobbing about her job, you know?
And so I just said, I think you should talk to your boss and quit. If you can, especially since you don’t like your job anyway. And she just kind of like stared at me and blinked and I was like, yeah, you can do that. And I reminded her of what my dad always says, which is Heather, remember that every job is temporary because someday you’ll be dead.
And she just kind of laughed. And then she was walking out and Abigail saw her in the hallway and she started talking to Abigail and Abigail goes, quit. Jesus Christ, just go ahead. She was like, quit your job. So, we got a text message from her the other day. She texted me and Abigail, and she said, Guess what?
My boss just offered me a part time position Monday through Friday, 7 to 11 AM, making almost the same hourly rate that is my salary. So I’d make half as much money, but I’d see my son so much more. I wouldn’t be in management anymore. I’d go back to working with the people I supervise currently. My company doesn’t do part time for anyone ever.
I could go back to full time the moment I say I’m ready. I sobbed immediately. Oh shit. That’s awesome. Yeah, so, I mean, I just love, I mean, come on, like you were just saying, you will never know if you don’t ask. Right, like, friendly reminder, you’re not trapped, okay? There’s always another choice to be made.
So what award should we give her, Maureen? Hmm. Okay, Kristyn, I’m going to give you the Asked and Answered award, because I know it took, like, so much oomph to finally get the guts up to ask that question, and I’m, we’re so glad you got the answer you needed for that. For sure. And just friendly reminder, everyone who gets an award on our show is also featured in our Instagram story.
So if you want to give Kristyn some props and some claps and whatever emoji you want you can respond on our story and see her and her beautiful little baby. Awesome.
Well, I would like to read the Apple review to see us out of here today. Is that okay? Yes, ma’am. All right. This is from L Harp and they say that this is a fantastic podcast and resource.
Thank you very much. What an incredible resource for breastfeeding moms. This podcast is educational, entertaining, and easy to follow. Maureen and Heather are clearly well educated and such a knowledgeable resource I can trust in a world of conflicting information in the motherhood space. The wide array of topics they cover is so helpful when you need an answer really quick, and it’s an enjoyable listen, too.
Love that they address each episode as a conversation among friends. Could not recommend more. Thank you very much. Oh, that is so sweet. Yeah, I know. It makes me happy. Like, we’re kind of having a hard day today, so getting to the end of an episode and hearing a positive review, like, Makes me feel better about it.
Yeah. Oh, I remember now why I’m podcasting on my vacation people.
Thank you guys so much for listening to another episode making it all the way to the end Don’t forget that if you love this episode any other episode if you want our exclusive little baby podcast beyond the boob You can join us on Patreon Yeah, we’d love to see you there. I’ll show you all my bump pics and tell you all of the TMI about my pregnancy, my third pregnancy, and my body and how it’s going.
And, you know, the way we change this big system is to educate our friends. ourselves, our providers sometimes, and our family occasionally. And we’re here for it. So, you know, feel free to let us know if you have any episode requests as well. You can always email us at MilkMinutePodcast@gmail.com All right, friends.
